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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I a bad neighbour? :/

285 replies

GM99 · 14/10/2023 22:51

I have recently bought a top floor flat in a victorian conversion in London. When I moved in, the previous owners left me a lovely note with really useful information including that the original floorboards were still in tact if I wanted to rip the carpet up. There was carpet in the hallway, on the stairs, on the landing and in the study. The carpet was pretty gross so I made the decision to have the floorboards reclaimed and someone came to rip out the carpets.

In the meantime, I met the neighbours downstairs - a couple in their 30s, no kids, he works from home full time and she works in an office full time. I've only had conversations with him. He's taken a couple of parcels in for me while I have been at work. He came across fairly relaxed and relatively friendly but I noticed he kept asking questions about what I was planning to do with the flat...which I did find a bit annoying because I got the feeling he was only talking to me to see, basically, how annoying a neighbour I was going to be rather than genuinely being friendly. He told me that the previous owners were a couple with a son with learning difficulties and the son used to bang and stamp really loudly on the floor which they found very difficult so they liaised with the neighbours who agreed to get carpet and some kind of soundproofing. I only found this out after getting the carpets ripped out. I asked him if I was noisy and he was like 'oh no no, everything is fine'. I said I didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable and that he should let me know if there were any issues.

Anyway, this morning I got a text message from him and his partner asking me to come round for drinks to discuss the flooring as they said they had noticed that it was much more noisy since I ripped the carpet out. I've agreed to go over but I'm not sure how I feel about the whole situation.

Firstly, I'm single, in my late 30s and live by myself and live a quiet lifestyle. I'm not running around having a rave every night so even though I understand they can probably hear me when I'm walking around, is it unreasonable of them to start interfering in how I decide to go my flat up - ie getting the floorboards reclaimed? What is a reasonable amount of noise for them to deal with? Given the nature of the flats and how they have been built, it's highly doubtful that all noise can be eliminated. I'm concerned they are going to try and persuade me into getting soundproofing which I can't afford. I work from home 2-3 days a week. I can understand it may have been a bit noisy recently as I have just moved in and have been getting people over to provide quotes on flooring, painting and decorating etc.

Any thoughts/opinions would be greatly appreciated :)

OP posts:
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5
LubyLooTwo · 15/10/2023 07:28

Do you think your flats previous owner left you the note about the floor kind of hoping it would influence you to pull up carpet and get revenge on folks below through you? Anyway it is not fair to have wooden floor on upper storey flat and annoy folks below. I inderstand why they are concerned and think they have been decent in the way they approached you anout it.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 15/10/2023 07:42

I'd get a friend round and ask them to walk about while you are in the downstairs flat. That way you actually know what level of noise you are making and can decide what to do from there..

CatherinedeBourgh · 15/10/2023 07:46

I've been the person in the flat underneath, and looked into getting soundproofing. What I was told was it would be very difficult from beneath, but very easy to lift the floorboards above and lay down insulation. If the upstairs neighbours had been amenable, I would have been absolutely willing to pay the cost of laying the insulation from above. A hassle for them, but it would have been life changing for me.

Mumof2teens79 · 15/10/2023 07:50

Sit in their flat while they walk around and talk in yours
I think you will be devestaat what they can hear....they are probably trying to give you privacy rather than complaining for their benefit.
My semi-detached neighbour just ripped her carpets out and I can hear every foot step and every conversation above a whisper. Everything echos

Antst · 15/10/2023 07:51

Oh, come on. No one who lives in an upper-floor apartment thinks for a second that it's OK to have bare floorboards. You knew you'd make the neighbours' lives hell when you did it and you did it anyway. Now you're playing the "I'm just a scared woman who lives alone" card to escape responsibility.

There are countless ways they can make your life miserable. If you choose to continue making them miserable, you'll be taking a risk.

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:01

I recently had a similar situation. I am an upstairs neighbour and the flat had laminate flooring when I moved in, I haven’t changed it (nor can I afford to). The neighbours, rather than speak to us directly, just complained about us to our Management Agency which was the first we realised the sound was a problem (they are really well built 1920s flat and my neighbours always comment that we never hear each other, so I really didn’t know there was an issue). Anyway, I spoke to the management agency who said unless we were making unreasonable noise, the complaint was unfair. So the fact it was just us walking in our home in the day time meant if they went to the council or something it wouldn’t stand. You don’t owe them an office for them choosing to wfh, I’m sure they don’t have the place as a registered place of work.

nottaotter · 15/10/2023 08:09

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia Sorry to sound snooty, but carpet tiles are hideous! Im amazed they are even sold anymore, I have only seen them in Council offices etc. If someone stuck them down in a Victorian building I would assume the person had lost the plot.

Antst · 15/10/2023 08:18

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:01

I recently had a similar situation. I am an upstairs neighbour and the flat had laminate flooring when I moved in, I haven’t changed it (nor can I afford to). The neighbours, rather than speak to us directly, just complained about us to our Management Agency which was the first we realised the sound was a problem (they are really well built 1920s flat and my neighbours always comment that we never hear each other, so I really didn’t know there was an issue). Anyway, I spoke to the management agency who said unless we were making unreasonable noise, the complaint was unfair. So the fact it was just us walking in our home in the day time meant if they went to the council or something it wouldn’t stand. You don’t owe them an office for them choosing to wfh, I’m sure they don’t have the place as a registered place of work.

You can put rugs down. There are rugs available for only a few pounds. There's no reason why you can't do it. You don't need to do a full renovation. You could also take your shoes off inside if you don't already do it. I have lived in apartments for so long that I do it automatically as soon as I walk in the door. It's not hard to be considerate.

Look at the excuses you're making (just like the OP). This is why people contact management agencies instead of approaching neighbours directly. Also, they complained about YOU when YOU moved in. It doesn't sound like they had problems before you were there or the management agent would have mentioned it. You are clearly being unreasonably noisy.

Of course people need to accept that there's going to be some sign that others live in the building when they live in apartments, but noise from people overhead who have hard floors is absolutely horrible to live with. If you're too selfish for any of that to make a dent in your thinking, consider it from the perspective of your own welfare. At some point, you will want to do something noisy (have workmen over, have a party, have visitors, whatever) and they will have ammunition for a complaint. There are also so many other ways they can make your life hard. It never, ever pays to make the neighbours the enemy.

Blinkingbonkers · 15/10/2023 08:19

I’m pretty sure your lease (you’ll have one whether leasehold or share of freehold) will state that your floors need to be carpeted, I’ve never come across one for a Victorian conversion that didn’t (work in that area!). Yep - you’re a bad neighbour……and I reckon the outgoing vendors set you up for this as they did in fact have issue with the people below…

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:20

Also lots of people saying it’s unreasonable to live in a top floor flat and have wooden floors… but it’s also unreasonable to live below people and expect not to hear any noise? It just comes with living in flats.

Tartareistasty · 15/10/2023 08:21

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:20

Also lots of people saying it’s unreasonable to live in a top floor flat and have wooden floors… but it’s also unreasonable to live below people and expect not to hear any noise? It just comes with living in flats.

There is difference between hearing some noise and all noise

Pockettopic · 15/10/2023 08:22

I think in a lot of flats you can hear every single footstep but if it’s not in the lease…
Technically it is their issue too and maybe there is a compromise to be had for sound proofing. They clearly bothered the previous owner hence the note! I don’t really like carpets so I’m with you with rugs but maybe you can get a friend to walk round your flat when you’re in your neighbours so you can actually hear how it sounds.

user1494050295 · 15/10/2023 08:25

We live downstairs. The previous owners ripped up the carpets to have floorboards and broke the lease agreements. The current family have two boys one of whom stomps when he gets irritated. We have to a degree become used to it but if it is bad I do call out. I can also hear the mum and dad trying to stop him. It is better now he is in school. Hopefully the behaviour will become less as he gets older. We own the freehold and upstairs want to revert to full floorboards and we looked at soundproofing. It isn’t that effective and expensive. We always hear stepping which isn’t an issue but loud stomping from a child with behavioural issues is an effing PITA.

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:26

@Antst you're clearly projecting here. In my experience I have carpets in the bedrooms and a rug that’s basically the entire size of the living room. The only area that is bare is the hallway so yes, they may hear me move from the living room the loo or the kitchen. I also work in an office so am not around in the day, don’t have people over (my flat is small and not central so I tend to go out) and have never done anything reasonable. On the other hand, they regularly have loud work done and parties. Recently they changed all their internal doors and blocked our communal exit and entrance for two days with workmen and tools. It was such a hazard. There was no notice and no respect for neighbours. Don’t just assume that everyone who gets complaints has deserved it. Some people are just nightmare neighbours.

Tontostitis · 15/10/2023 08:28

Try to put yourself in their position. It's not just you walking around they can hear more if. They can hear your telly, your phone your washing machine your toilet everything is louder without carpets. You are being so very selfish subjecting them to a quite possibly low level but constant noise or worry about noise. Recarpet and accept your sellers were being malicious.

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:30

@Antst i should mention in my example, my neighbours also have laminate flooring throughout and also live above people. You couldn’t make it up haha.

Warum · 15/10/2023 08:31

Having lived below wooden floors....YABU in terms of flooring. At least get some thick rugs instead of whole carpets.

As for being invited round, YANBU, it's clearly a 2 against 1 set up, and isn't necessary.

Politely decline the invite and head out rug/carpet shopping.

2jacqi · 15/10/2023 08:31

Unithorn · 15/10/2023 07:06

Have you lived in a property as OP describes? I have an noise travels a lot even if someone is just doing everyday things. It's not about wanting silence, it's realising that living in a flat means there will be noise (as there still would be with carpeted floors) but also that there are others in the building and it's decent to at least consider them.

Show quote history

I have! I have even had the tenant below complaining about a cat, yes a cat, jumping off the sofa onto the carpeted floor!!!! gobsmacked!!!

Moo2019 · 15/10/2023 08:33

@Tontostitis I’m not sure I agree with you here. You can’t buy a downstairs flat and just hope you can always dictate the flooring of your neighbours. It’s up to the buyers to do proper research into what they are buying and what the sound is like - as neighbours watching tv etc. is not unreasonable behaviour. I understand it’s really upsetting to realise you’ve made a mistake purchasing something you regret, but this isn’t the fault of your neighbours

DBinHK · 15/10/2023 08:38

New wooden floors with good soundproofing are fine but that's not what we're talking about here.

OP has the original floorboards and I imagine to lift them, put soundproofing underneath and relay them would be very expensive and probably damage the floorboards.

My ground floor flat of a Victorian conversion has beautiful sanded original floors in a couple of rooms, so I understand the appeal, but I have a lot of thick rugs. I dread the day that my upstairs neighbour moves and her carpets are removed.

MelRoc · 15/10/2023 08:39

We bought a flat and had no issues with our upstairs neighbour for years.

Then someone new bought it and ripped up the carpet and it was hell. Some noise is of course to be expected but we would hear their feet hit the floor when they got out of bed and then every step they took until we heard them go to bed. It woke us up every morning and was a constant noise in our home.

It was unbearable.

Mummyboy1 · 15/10/2023 08:46

I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to out a different perspective on here. I'm on the 2nd/ top floor flat and none of us have carpet! We would have to ask for permission for carpet to be put in and it may not be granted. Some of us have rugs but that mainly so the floor isn't as cold. All I can do / and you can , is to be considerate of what youre doing.

Original poster
GM99 · 15/10/2023 08:47

Antst · 15/10/2023 07:51

Oh, come on. No one who lives in an upper-floor apartment thinks for a second that it's OK to have bare floorboards. You knew you'd make the neighbours' lives hell when you did it and you did it anyway. Now you're playing the "I'm just a scared woman who lives alone" card to escape responsibility.

There are countless ways they can make your life miserable. If you choose to continue making them miserable, you'll be taking a risk.

This is really unfair and absolute rubbish. I'm not playing any card thank you very much.

OP posts:
minipie · 15/10/2023 08:51

Yes that was an unnecessarily aggressive post.

Have you checked your lease yet?

minipie · 15/10/2023 08:52

Apologies just saw the lease says nothing about flooring. Good luck with your rug hunt.