WHY would there be dairy in rice, and bread?

[plantsandwich]

Planning a trip to London and was looking at some restaurants near where I'll be staying. I'm vegan, my trip partner isn't, needed to look at some options that'll cater for both of us.

Found a Turkish restaurant that I thought looked fab-Turkish and Greek food is usually a safe bet. Nothing on the menu labelled vegan, but still this isn't always the case and I figured I couldn't go far wrong with stuffed vine leaves containing onion, herbs and rice, a hummus and bread starter, Imam Bayildi, Okra Stew, vegetable Stew-all of the last three are mains and all served with rice and none had any dairy or egg element to them.

I did however email them to ask to book a table, and I mentioned that I was vegan and had chosen them for this reason.

I had a very polite email back with a list of vegan options on it however of those three mains, I would have to have them with salad instead of rice as 'our rice contains dairy' and I couldn't have the bread with the hummus starter either-they didn't specify why, just said 'Hummus starter' (with carrot and cucumber instead of rice). The vine leaves weren't on the list either, I assume because of the rice/dairy issue.

One issue with this is WHY? Breads don't need to contain milk (unless sourdough/soda bread which this is not!) and WHY is there dairy in rice?Rice is literally a natural grain? How would dairy end up in it?

My other issue is, salad is NOT a substitute for rice. Rice is a carb. It adds sustenance to a meal, salad does not do that. Vegans aren't rabbits...
This is why I end up eating in chains a lot of the time, even though ethically I'd love to support local businesses more.

Not great for people with allergies or intolerances either-they could be forgiven for not checking if rice has dairy in it.

Went back to the drawing board and found an Italian restaurant that caters fully for vegans so that's that I guess.

What about Mexican food ?

yeah you implied it.

I second the suggestion of Mildred’s. I’m not vegan, or even veggie but took a vegan friend earlier this year and the food was fantastic

Turkish rice isn't actually rice it's pasta (or a mix) so if you're GF always worth asking in a Turkish restaurant if it's rice or orzo. Nothing to do with being vegan I know but useful to know!

I like how pita worked in there in both meanings

Walk up to Drummond Street, there's tons of vegan restaurants there. Hare and Toirtoise in Brunswick Centre does vegan options.

The Antalya Restaurant is is not that great anyway, bit too big so the quality lacks.

You will be only ten mins walk from Covent Garden and then China Town where there will be loads of dairy free options.

Maybe it's a MN "massive salad"?

@Plasticbottleofvino we both love Mexican 😋
@Majbluemug if you say so 🤣 (never entered my head to ask them to do anything of the sort)
@1ittlegreen thank you for the feedback, I only go to London once a year or so, not enough to become familiar really, will discuss this before going!
@HumourReplacementTherapy that is good to know. I must've just been spoilt with where I've gone up to now.

Thank you for all the replies, really interesting. I've googled several 'bog standard' breads (waitrose's own, tescos brown, warburtons) not found any with milk. I usually make my own bread rolls (I try to avoid bread as it makes me need my own postcode but I make it for others often) and never considered about milk or such-obviously if I eat out and there's a 've' or such sign next to a meal containing bread I know I'm okay.
That sounds difficult @Superscientist!

@ThinWomansBrain I'd never ask them to but guessing from the email reply, that if they'd have been able/willing to do that they'd have said so. I think I'd still be hungry (depending on portion sizes) after a vegetable stew with just salad instead of the 'carb', too.

@Wavescrashingonthebeach I agree it isn't really possible to be100% vegan. I don't think It's possible to be 100% any religious or philosophical belief really, we all adapt for what suits.

I have a second-hand sports car with partial leather seats, but it was a gift and I figure that's more environmentally friendly than buying a new one. And I am the same, if I found out something was made with dairy I'd be more 'Oh well, never mind I'll know next time' but meat is a different story.

I have only ordered a takeaway for myself once in my entire life as I love cooking and don't see the appeal of them but sometimes if others are ordering I'll ask them to get me a side dish or whatever. I ordered some vegetable pakoras or samosas once, bit into them and they were meat.
The company were absolutely useless at dealing with it. They told me that they just order pakoras and It's pot luck whether they're meat or vegetable-hard to believe but fine I guess but at least know which ones you've got! And tell the person ordering! I doubt a meat eater would be happy to receive vegetable ones if they'd ordered meat ones either but at least they'd not going against their philosophical beleifs.

My favourite way of cooking rice is tahdig. It's cooked with butter on the bottom, very slowly, so the rice becomes crispy and delicious.

I understand you wanting to avoid dairy, of course, but it's quite rude to presume that other people's cooking traditions are somehow aberrant just because they don't suit your diet.

@plantsandwich as a vegan you must know that it is law to only eat air with a side of cardboard. How very rude of you to have a dietary requirement! 😉

Mildred’s is totally fine for meat eaters btw. I love meat and put it in many meals, and happily eat there once or twice a month.

I just looked at the menu for Mildred’s - there’s very little there I’d eat (and I’m generally really happy with vegetarian or vegan food - in fact I often choose one of the non-meat options in restaurants). A lot of it seems to be based around the disgusting fake meat stuff, and I don’t eat mushrooms.

I think it’s probably a “know your audience” place.

I've not said they're aberrant! I asked a question and got the answer. It's not what I'm used to, as I've said my favourite Greek and Turkish places don't do this-I suspect they've just adapted to be inclusive or to avoid triggering peoples intolerances/allergies-I am going to ask next time I go in.

@Gnomegnomegnome I have uttered the phrase 'I am a vegan, not a rabbit' far more times than I'd have liked to!

100% this!

OP why are you comparing traditional recipes to ‘bog standard’ supermarket loaves..? What are you trying to prove?

One issue with this is WHY? Breads don't need to contain milk (unless sourdough/soda bread which this is not!) and WHY is there dairy in rice?Rice is literally a natural grain? How would dairy end up in it?

You literally did, though, didn't you? If you'd said 'I'm not used to dairy in rice; does anyone know why this would have it?' you'd have come across very differently. Instead, you acted as if it was utterly weird for someone to have a different culinary tradition from you.

I didn't realise there would be butter in the rice dishes either so I've learnt something new. I now suspect this is why takeaway rice is a lot more yummy than home cooked 🤔

Also to the coconut milk/death in paradise pp 😂😂

Yes exactly this then back track when people point it out...

So I asked the same question but in a different way that doesn't fit your idea of okay. To me it was weird as I've been to similar restaurants that haven't done it, some posters responded and explained it and that was that.

I'm not sure where I've 'backtracked' but I am also not interested in an argument, I've had my answer-thanks to the helpful posters

@ExcitingRicotta I did that because I don't buy bread often and some posters had said a lot of bread isn't vegan so I decided to have a look

You have backtracked by being outraged and confused by dairy in rice and bread then pretended you weren't and just asking...

Maybe think a tiny bit in future before complaining things don't fit your expectations.

The world does not have to support your self imposed limitations.

TBH it sounds like you haven't been vegan for very long or that maybe you're not very diligent about it if you just assume foods are vegan because they sound ok.

This is par for the course I'm afraid.

One time a particular eatery gave me a bowl of chopped iceberg lettuce, claiming it was the only thing in the restaurant I could eat (and they had wasted my entire hour's lunch break "checking"). They then charged me for a full price caesar salad. For about 40p of lettuce.

Don't even get me started on parties and weddings.

It's getting better but it's still shit in most places.

Okay then, as I've said not interested in an argument. I was confused, not outraged. Semantics perhaps.

I never said it did, @TheLastParty -I merely booked somewhere else for us. I've found the thread very useful anyway

Urgh I hate these vegan restaurants that just cook omnivore food but with fake meat instead. I want something interesting and actually nourishing when I eat out.