WHY would there be dairy in rice, and bread?

[plantsandwich]

Planning a trip to London and was looking at some restaurants near where I'll be staying. I'm vegan, my trip partner isn't, needed to look at some options that'll cater for both of us.

Found a Turkish restaurant that I thought looked fab-Turkish and Greek food is usually a safe bet. Nothing on the menu labelled vegan, but still this isn't always the case and I figured I couldn't go far wrong with stuffed vine leaves containing onion, herbs and rice, a hummus and bread starter, Imam Bayildi, Okra Stew, vegetable Stew-all of the last three are mains and all served with rice and none had any dairy or egg element to them.

I did however email them to ask to book a table, and I mentioned that I was vegan and had chosen them for this reason.

I had a very polite email back with a list of vegan options on it however of those three mains, I would have to have them with salad instead of rice as 'our rice contains dairy' and I couldn't have the bread with the hummus starter either-they didn't specify why, just said 'Hummus starter' (with carrot and cucumber instead of rice). The vine leaves weren't on the list either, I assume because of the rice/dairy issue.

One issue with this is WHY? Breads don't need to contain milk (unless sourdough/soda bread which this is not!) and WHY is there dairy in rice?Rice is literally a natural grain? How would dairy end up in it?

My other issue is, salad is NOT a substitute for rice. Rice is a carb. It adds sustenance to a meal, salad does not do that. Vegans aren't rabbits...
This is why I end up eating in chains a lot of the time, even though ethically I'd love to support local businesses more.

Not great for people with allergies or intolerances either-they could be forgiven for not checking if rice has dairy in it.

Went back to the drawing board and found an Italian restaurant that caters fully for vegans so that's that I guess.

I'm vegetarian and eat vegan a lot. But tbh you sound really entitled. You can't expect them to change traditional cooking methods because you don't eat certain things.

I am trying to google how exactly you'd put milk/dairy into rice now.

I start my risotto by frying the rice in melted butter before adding stock.

@

We're not vegan, but my DS is allergic to numerous things including dairy and egg and they are in loads of foods where you wouldn't necessarily expect them. Lots of bread contains milk or has an egg glaze. I would never assume any kind of bread was safe without asking. Rice with dairy is a bit more unusual, but it sometimes has butter in it.
We do get lots of strange looks from waiting staff when we ask about allergens but over the years I have learned never to make assumptions. Unless I have cooked something myself, or bought something in packet with all the ingredients printed on it, I always ask. Paradoxically, chain restaurants are often better than independents when it comes to providing information and you know that if you've found a safe dish in Zizzi or Pizza Express etc it will be the same if you order it in Aberdeen, Southampton or Cardiff.
That said, I generally find independent places are willing to be flexible if you book in advance and talk to them about dietary needs. I'd be a bit disappointed in a restaurant that couldn't/wouldn't provide a portion of plain boiled rice. Once in a while we find places that clearly just can't be bothered, in which case we take our business elsewhere.

That feels harsh, some places who are able to adapt are happy to do that. I sent an email only a few days ago to a woman who runs bread making workshops. I only asked if she could label each workshop clearly to help me decide, she got back to me thanking me for asking an agreeing it would be useful. She also added that a lot of things made are adaptable, and she's happy to do that if I make her aware in advance. Similar for a cafe near me, zero vegan option on the menu, but I know I can walk in and ask for small or medium bespoke all-day breakfasts

It's always worth having conversations to understand what's possible, instead of assuming. Businesses can't anticipate everything. Few are ideological, if they can adapt and doing so earns them money, they'll do it. The only "entitled" thing is getting grumpy if they won't or can't adapt.

Try being GF - often the whole dish is reduced to salad (no dressing) followed by fruit salad!

I thought rice always was made with butter! I was dairy free when I was bf and allergy baby and it was definitely on my no-go list as typically made. Salad is defo a crap replacement for it though. A lot of restaurants were able to alter it for me and use oil etc instead.

@Majbluemug oh yes I totally said that I expected them to do that, didn't I...

@MrsAvocet most definitely-I go to chains so much more often because of that. There's a lot of independnet restaurants around here that I'd love to support but I just can't when theyre like that. And also the vegan dishes are often so uninspiring compared to chains. Zizzis do a fantastic vegan pizza, but if I go to the local italian I'm paying a similar price for a boring bowl of pasta with basic tomato sauce that I could do myself at home for a few pence-I just won't do it!

Have you ever baked bread? Many bread recipes include either milk or egg.

restaurants often add butter to rice for flavor and texture.

yes, they could use coconut milk or coconut oil, but what about people who are allergic to those things and want to enjoy those dishes. Why is your preference to avoid dairy more important than someone else’s need to avoid an ingredient?

I bake it all the time! I can't remember the last time I bought any. Made tortillas today too. Never used milk or egg. On the occasions I have bought bread from the supermarket it hasn't had anything in it that wasn't suitable.

Why is your preference to avoid dairy more important than someone else’s need to avoid an ingredient?

I think this ^ is a bit of a reach. I've said nothing of the sort. I didn't even mention anything coconut-related.

Where are you staying in London? There are 1000+ restaurants that cater for vegans extensively that aren’t boring chains and have full meat/fish options too!

I did think it was common knowledge that most Turkish and Middle Eastern restaurants use butter in rice and the bread is often made with yoghurt and most often brushed with butter!

@Torganer I think I've just been lucky-my two local ones don't-perhaps due to this sort of issue or allergy issues, I'm not sure. I've been to others with a 've' next to similar dishes too so yes, I suppose I've just not come across it before.

I'll be near Russell Square

YANBU to think rice wouldn't have dairy, I wouldn't expect it to either, not as a standard plain rice.

It's a shame they aren't able to accommodate you, especially as you are trying to accommodate your meat eating friend.

Does your friend like Chinese? If so there's an amazing one near Queensway tube station called New Fortune Cookie. You can walk or tube from Russell Square to Holborn, change to the central line then it's 6 stops, so the journey should take about 20 minutes total.

Why don't you Google vegan bakery or vegan restaurant ?

Many places sell vegan now compared to 20+ years ago

@plantsandwich I find a lot of independent places are at one extreme or the other. There's the type who won't deviate from the menu at all, for instance they have fresh strawberries as a garnish on the desserts so must have some in the kitchen but they won't sell a small bowl of plain strawberries, and then there's those who won't do a bowl of strawberries because it's boring and the chef is busy creating something special for DS. Needless to say we don't return to the first type of place. It's their prerogative not to vary their menu of course but if they can't be bothered to put a few strawberries in a bowl I figure they probably don't want our business anyway.
At least you know what you're getting when you go to a chain.

I'm not vegan at all (beans in particular are not my friend!!) but often go with vegan friends to Mildred's which is fantastic, Dishoom is great too, I don't particularly like Indian type food but there are lots of non spicy options. We also like Bills/Granger & Co. All these are in Kings Cross.

All the turkish rice I've ever had has had noodles in it which contain egg. I've not had it fried in butter but the noodles are fried in oil then the rice and then water is added. I suspect its the noodles that are the non vegan bit

Ghee/butter is a staple in rice, you would be hard pushed to find a south Asian restaurant that doesn’t use butter in their rice. It’s vital when making large batches as it maintains the rices texture so it doesn’t clump up. We’re dairy free, rice, naan etc is a definite no go when we eat out.

I go to chains so much more often because of that. There's a lot of independnet restaurants around here that I'd love to support but I just can't when theyre like that.

I guess with a chain they have the food development and purchase power available to make catering to minority diet choices profitable while smaller independents struggle to keep up with just allegry requirements. They are after all businesses, if there was significant profit being lost vs cost of providing a good range of extra dishes/options in a busy kitchen they would do something about it.

@MrsAvocet After over a year of stomach problems ive worked out im lactose intolerant by process of elimination. I used to frequent Costa a lot but not anymore. I now drink Beanies coffee at home with Arla lacto free milk.

Both Costa and Greggs have tried to convince me to try oat/soya milk I tried oat milk in a Costa caramel latte and it was vile and my stomach had the same reaction. Ive asked at Costa, Greggs Kaspas Desserts and Toast. None of them do truly lactose free. Shocking but i guess they will go where the profit is so that will be regular milk and plant based milk.

I'm a vegan but I put yabu because I assumed it was pretty common knowledge to put yoghurt & butter in some bread products and when cooking rice. It is a pita but their restaurant their rules. I just tend to focus on the ones that put vegan next to the vegan items on the menu or sometimes just give something the benefit of the doubt and assume its OK depending on what it is. I've learnt over the years its impossible to be 100% vegan as even money isn't vegan so I won't stress myself over small things.
I'm a lot more careful of meat over dairy, I wouldn't be upset if I'd accidentally eaten a trace of dairy but would be more with meat.
Glad you found somewhere more suitable anyway :)

You'd have thought they could have kept a couple of packs of microwave rice on hand to cater for vegans - supermarket for 50p, sell it for £4-£5

The Wagamama chain always used to be really good for adapting the menu - ten years or so ago I used to eat out fairly regularly with someone that was coeliac, it was never a problem to swap out noodles for rice, etc.

My daughter has food allergies and absolutely nothing surprises me.

Milk in pork. Paprika in an orange ice lolly or in a breadcrumb around ham. Strawberry flavour sweets coloured with tomatoes. Onions and garlic in everything. Soya in bread - why in Tesco is it in very few loaves of bread but in Sainsbury's every load has it in?

I always phone ahead and it's probably 50:50 whether they can accommodate us or I have to bring in something to make a dish a meal.

Dried milk powder is often in bread as it gives a better texture. Butter or other dairy products are added to some rice dishes to counteract the chalky texture in some al dented rice dishes like risotto