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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

toxic sister.... AIBU??

109 replies

chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 16:55

Okay let me start off with a little back story first... i cut out my entire mothers side due to them enabling my mothers behavior's. I was always the ugly duckling she would demonstrate it in many ways but the one behavior that disturbed me the most was the time my mother took myself and her boyfriend to Tunisia (i was 14/15 at the time) and she engaged in sexual intercourse less than a meter away from the single bed that i was sleeping on, merely divided by a small drawer. She excused her behaviour with "its only a bit of fun" and "don't be so ungrateful, i saved and worked overtime for this holiday and you've been nothing but ungrateful"

Another way was when my sister wanted to go into a dead end job she received nothing but support but as i was in my later teen years doing a carpentry apprenticeship she was robbing tools that i paid for myself through my apprenticeship (note she was charging me £250 a fortnight in board as "your sister does it, why can't you? further, note that i was on £4.75 at the time) so those tools were more than just the money. As my sister is older than me i confided in her and told her about the things that were bothering me as another dreaded holiday was up and coming and i was having nervous break downs all the time.

fast forward to the present, i met the love of my life and managed to beat my mental health issues all thanks to my wife and we had a beautiful daughter and she is our pride and joy. I gave my sister the benefit of the doubt and let her back into my life so maybe we can reconstruct our relationship for the sake of my daughter. Before my daughter was born my wife and i met with my sister on a couple of occasions which made me think "okay, shes changed, she's a lot more mature now i have absolutely no problem with her meeting our child"

Fast forward to 2 weeks after giving birth she starts showing a bad side to her, a side that was all too familiar to me. Questioning our parenting skills and being really condescending with her advice even though her experience with children has been only as a baby sitter for her best friends kids (they co-sleep even now at the age of 7 so i don't trust this woman's advice especially with it has been gleamed from another person) my sister suggested to give our daughter tap water at the age of 2 weeks so her advice was shockingly bad.

A month or so ago we had an argument over the same sort of thing, sister came to visit and everything was okay until our daughter started moaning and complaining so i said "here give her here ill try to work some daddy magic" and she went on to say "i've done this for a lot longer than you have" and "how dare you question me when i'm only trying to help" " i've been around kids for years" to which i said "yes but baby sitting supervised is a lot different to being a parent, you'll never have to wake up 4 times during the night just to change her nappy or put her dummy back in", i saw my wife was getting increasingly upset with the atmosphere my sister had created so i dismissed the argument until later on the phone in private.

long story short i said something along the lines of " don't you ever bring that sort of confrontation to our house again especially when it concerns our daughter, advice is good but when you start interfering thats when we have a problem, i let you in out of the benefit of doubt but don't push it, you're on thin ice" to where she hung up and called me back 15 minutes later crying her eyes out (normal defence mechanism for her) saying she's sorry etc etc. This was erratic and irrational behaviour so i dismissed it straight away. But i gave her a 3rd chance and now she seems to not even be bothered in the slightest, saying nothing or replying with just emojis after sending her a video of a recent milestone. So my question is, do i even entertain her? and also..am i being unreasonable?. I know this is a long one so thank you for any replies but this is a story that relied on the back story being told.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Insommmmnia · 14/10/2023 18:26

So you sister is both crazy and irrational but simultaneously not affected by your mothers abuse?

I was the black sheep and my sister was the golden child but even though I might have thought my sister had the better end of the deal as a child, as an adult I am able to recognise the differing but equal impacts this had on my sister

Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:26

I don't know, I've never met either of you but she doesn't sound like she blossomed. She doesn't sound like a happy well adjusted person at all.

RunningFromInsanity · 14/10/2023 18:27

I can’t quite understand what your sister did when you were younger to warrant being cut from your life?

But it does seem like you were fixing for an argument, and you were U and condescending to say ‘don’t push it you are on thin ice’

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:28

LadyWhineglass · 14/10/2023 18:20

Maybe they’re cosleeping because they don’t have enough bedrooms?

i'm really not bothered with what they do with their kids it's irrelevant to me, its more the fact that all my sisters advice has been gleamed from one couple who just so happened to co-sleep. I don't think its a huge deal. I just see it as you're creating a hurdle you're going to have to jump over at some point so why not do it early?

OP posts:
Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:30

Insommmmnia · 14/10/2023 18:26

So you sister is both crazy and irrational but simultaneously not affected by your mothers abuse?

I was the black sheep and my sister was the golden child but even though I might have thought my sister had the better end of the deal as a child, as an adult I am able to recognise the differing but equal impacts this had on my sister

yes because she didn't receive abuse. she was as you say 'the golden child' but the way we we're both treated were day and night examples.

OP posts:
Worddance · 14/10/2023 18:32

It's hard to tell as you may have been completely reasonable or you might be quite harsh and aggressive, I can't make out which it is from your narrative. The fact that she apologised but you dismissed it doesn't speak well for you but at the same time, you've both had an awful childhood and are going to need to be patient with each other to salvage a relationship out of so much trauma.

There might be more tactful, gentle ways that you could stop the advice. There are also ways of drawing boundaries that don't sound like you're telling the person off. You'll get more of what you want if you aim for that.

Worddance · 14/10/2023 18:33

And your sister will have had a difficult time in ways you're not realising. With a mother so fucked up that she'll do that you've described, being her golden child will have brought its own burdens, I promise.

HakunaMatiłda · 14/10/2023 18:37

chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:17

because you can't really relay tone of voice and other factors on messages i can't best describe how nasty she was acting. i failed to mention that my wife walked in on the phone call half way through and she was going to say something until my sister uttered "its got fucking nothing to do with you". I must insist her behaviour was very disturbing to both my wife and i and my father that was present during the confrontation.

Show quote history

If my sister said that to my wife then I wouldn’t be extending her a third chance.

BananaPyjamaLlama · 14/10/2023 18:37

What @TheFormidableMrsC said!
Some incredably lacking in compassion and comprehension skills on your thread op. Maybe its a Saturday evening thing or maybe its just how MN is now? - skim read the thread, ignore all the essential details, focus on the trivial and then tell the op off when they are quite rightly rather fed up at being misunderstood.

Id cut (most) ties with your sister for now op. Presumably she, like you also has major baggage as a result of your mother - thats something she needs to deal with for herself. If I were you Id focus on your little family unit, build some lovely memories xxx

AcrossthePond55 · 14/10/2023 18:38

@chonkylegs

Listen, you can 'add in' or 'delete' anyone from your life for any reason. I'm old, and I've learnt that we only have one go-round on this beautiful Earth and we're entitled to surround ourselves with people that add to our lives and make those lives 'a great ride'. As the old saying goes "You're a long time dead".

If your sister doesn't add to your life, then let her go, but do it quietly. Don't make a big 'thing' of it or that you have to 'let her know how you feel', just stop sending videos and messages. If she contacts you and wants 'back in' then at that time you can either decide 'no' or you can lay down your 'ground rules' and be prepared to let her go (again) if she can't abide by them.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:39

RunningFromInsanity · 14/10/2023 18:27

I can’t quite understand what your sister did when you were younger to warrant being cut from your life?

But it does seem like you were fixing for an argument, and you were U and condescending to say ‘don’t push it you are on thin ice’

there are multiple reasons why but mainly as an enabler, i won't label all of them but after the conversation after the holiday she would say "you're making a big deal out of nothing" even inappropriately touched me at one point whilst she was drunk... i'd say i was around 16? i've never been diagnosed with PTSD or any of the sort but it definitely affected me as these things that happened through my teens lie on my mind pretty much all the time.

OP posts:
thecatinthetwat · 14/10/2023 18:41

She probably was damaged, even if you can’t see it.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:45

Worddance · 14/10/2023 18:32

It's hard to tell as you may have been completely reasonable or you might be quite harsh and aggressive, I can't make out which it is from your narrative. The fact that she apologised but you dismissed it doesn't speak well for you but at the same time, you've both had an awful childhood and are going to need to be patient with each other to salvage a relationship out of so much trauma.

There might be more tactful, gentle ways that you could stop the advice. There are also ways of drawing boundaries that don't sound like you're telling the person off. You'll get more of what you want if you aim for that.

thats the thing... i did try to politely tell her about stopping the advice, it was only when she escalated the situation where i started being more firm with her. my voice wasn't raised in the slightest in comparison with my sister who was trying to get the upper hand by overpowering me by raising her voice in my own home, with my baby daughter. I must however reiterate that she wasn't a victim of my mother, she was a prized trophy. My mother had a best friend who worked at Banardo's and worked as a childrens counsellor and had observed the differences and actually told my mother about it. needless to say they never spoke again, didn't even go to his funeral after 10+ years of friendship. I know this as i stayed close to him as he would employ me as his personal gardener at the time.

OP posts:
Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:46

thecatinthetwat · 14/10/2023 18:41

She probably was damaged, even if you can’t see it.

i may need to read up on this then as im utterly confused at the concept that she would of been damaged by my mothers behaviour towards me.

OP posts:
Loubelle70 · 14/10/2023 18:47

I have a toxic family, very similar to yours. Im now NC...and feel better for it. Years of abuse. Go NC or LC. Protect your child from that cycle of toxicity.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:47

AcrossthePond55 · 14/10/2023 18:38

@chonkylegs

Listen, you can 'add in' or 'delete' anyone from your life for any reason. I'm old, and I've learnt that we only have one go-round on this beautiful Earth and we're entitled to surround ourselves with people that add to our lives and make those lives 'a great ride'. As the old saying goes "You're a long time dead".

If your sister doesn't add to your life, then let her go, but do it quietly. Don't make a big 'thing' of it or that you have to 'let her know how you feel', just stop sending videos and messages. If she contacts you and wants 'back in' then at that time you can either decide 'no' or you can lay down your 'ground rules' and be prepared to let her go (again) if she can't abide by them.

Thank you! of all comments this has been the most constructive and maybe i share the same sort of traditional values. Its just as shes in the wrong... am i meant to be trying for her to have contact or should that be down to her and her alone?

OP posts:
soddingspiderseason · 14/10/2023 18:50

Hi, I get it. I grew up with a toxic brother who was physically, psychologically and emotionally abusive to me. My mum didn't support me; he is the "golden child". We are estranged. Unless you have absolute confidence that your sister understands that her behaviour is wrong and that similar issues won't happen again, I would go to very low contact or no contact. Your life is with your wife and beautiful baby. Toxic people are just that; they poison your well-being. And life is too short and too precious to spend it dealing with the negativity wrought by others. Take care x

RunningFromInsanity · 14/10/2023 18:51

You have NO idea what she went through as a child.
It’s likely she also had some trauma, but maybe you aren’t aware of it?
Especially if you say she sexually assaulted you- a classics sign of someone themselves being inappropriately touched as a child.

Even if she wasn’t I doubt she had a great upbringing.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:52

BananaPyjamaLlama · 14/10/2023 18:37

What @TheFormidableMrsC said!
Some incredably lacking in compassion and comprehension skills on your thread op. Maybe its a Saturday evening thing or maybe its just how MN is now? - skim read the thread, ignore all the essential details, focus on the trivial and then tell the op off when they are quite rightly rather fed up at being misunderstood.

Id cut (most) ties with your sister for now op. Presumably she, like you also has major baggage as a result of your mother - thats something she needs to deal with for herself. If I were you Id focus on your little family unit, build some lovely memories xxx

i think from all the rational minded people that has conversed with me on here, it seems the right thing to do is to let my sister make the move, she may well have issues of her own due to her mother- they both speak and we haven't spoken since i was 18 so personally, i find it hard to believe. But thank you for your response it is very appreciated and enlightening, every one of these posts give me more insight on what to do even if its to do nothing.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 14/10/2023 18:52

BananaPyjamaLlama · 14/10/2023 18:37

What @TheFormidableMrsC said!
Some incredably lacking in compassion and comprehension skills on your thread op. Maybe its a Saturday evening thing or maybe its just how MN is now? - skim read the thread, ignore all the essential details, focus on the trivial and then tell the op off when they are quite rightly rather fed up at being misunderstood.

Id cut (most) ties with your sister for now op. Presumably she, like you also has major baggage as a result of your mother - thats something she needs to deal with for herself. If I were you Id focus on your little family unit, build some lovely memories xxx

A man is posting on MN. It's the rules to give them a really hard time apparently. Although having said that, I've seen some shit threads this week with posters being victim blamed after being sexually abused and other delights!

OP, I wonder if both you and your sibling need some sort of therapy. Your issues are widely different it seems but particularly I think you must try and address the trauma of your developing years. As an aside, my lovely Dad had a dreadful childhood including SA. He made damned sure that our childhoods were happy as a result. I think some healing will come from you being a wonderful father to your child. Please do make sure you and your wife have your boundaries clearly set out and stick with it.

RunningFromInsanity · 14/10/2023 18:53

Also, yes you can cut anyone from your life without any reason but unless you are a perfect human being yourself, I think it would be hypocritical as nothing you have posted so far is bad enough to warrant it.

Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:53

Do a bit of research. She sounds pretty messed up tbh. You may not be in a place yourself that you can deal with her and that's ok, you don't have to. The relationship might not be salvageable. It would be helpful if came to recognise that no one thrives with a mother as bad as yours.

thecatinthetwat · 14/10/2023 18:54

op, if your sister thought that this abuse was ok, and she also perpetrated some of the abuse then that isn’t normal at all. Honestly, from your description she may have borderline Pd. She doesn’t sound healthy at all, golden child or not.

you don’t have to have a relationship with her. But if you do want one, then you probably need to start from a point of view that you’ve both been harmed by your upbringing. Perhaps you are both feeling some resentment etc. towards each other from the past?

Apossum · 14/10/2023 18:54

Sorry OP, just so I have it right here, are you now saying she sexually assaulted you when you were both teenagers?? I rather think all this guff about cosleeping and tap water falls by the wayside compared to that doesn’t it? For someone who sounds rather fiercely protective of their wife and daughter, I’m surprised you’d have your sister in your life at all if that were the case.. and if so, you’d not be quibbling over unwanted advice, rudely given or not.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:56

TheFormidableMrsC · 14/10/2023 18:52

A man is posting on MN. It's the rules to give them a really hard time apparently. Although having said that, I've seen some shit threads this week with posters being victim blamed after being sexually abused and other delights!

OP, I wonder if both you and your sibling need some sort of therapy. Your issues are widely different it seems but particularly I think you must try and address the trauma of your developing years. As an aside, my lovely Dad had a dreadful childhood including SA. He made damned sure that our childhoods were happy as a result. I think some healing will come from you being a wonderful father to your child. Please do make sure you and your wife have your boundaries clearly set out and stick with it.

Show quote history

yeah, i sort of expected this treatment as i'm a male, i knew some people would hate on me for that and that alone. your father sounds like the upmost respectable and inspiring father ever and i wish i can be like him. I am trying and you are right, being a father has helped me heal its just hard as i kind of generalize my mothers side as 'the bad guys' and my sister is included in that... its something i need to get rid of and i've had years of therapy but its just never seem to have gone.

OP posts: