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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

toxic sister.... AIBU??

109 replies

chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 16:55

Okay let me start off with a little back story first... i cut out my entire mothers side due to them enabling my mothers behavior's. I was always the ugly duckling she would demonstrate it in many ways but the one behavior that disturbed me the most was the time my mother took myself and her boyfriend to Tunisia (i was 14/15 at the time) and she engaged in sexual intercourse less than a meter away from the single bed that i was sleeping on, merely divided by a small drawer. She excused her behaviour with "its only a bit of fun" and "don't be so ungrateful, i saved and worked overtime for this holiday and you've been nothing but ungrateful"

Another way was when my sister wanted to go into a dead end job she received nothing but support but as i was in my later teen years doing a carpentry apprenticeship she was robbing tools that i paid for myself through my apprenticeship (note she was charging me £250 a fortnight in board as "your sister does it, why can't you? further, note that i was on £4.75 at the time) so those tools were more than just the money. As my sister is older than me i confided in her and told her about the things that were bothering me as another dreaded holiday was up and coming and i was having nervous break downs all the time.

fast forward to the present, i met the love of my life and managed to beat my mental health issues all thanks to my wife and we had a beautiful daughter and she is our pride and joy. I gave my sister the benefit of the doubt and let her back into my life so maybe we can reconstruct our relationship for the sake of my daughter. Before my daughter was born my wife and i met with my sister on a couple of occasions which made me think "okay, shes changed, she's a lot more mature now i have absolutely no problem with her meeting our child"

Fast forward to 2 weeks after giving birth she starts showing a bad side to her, a side that was all too familiar to me. Questioning our parenting skills and being really condescending with her advice even though her experience with children has been only as a baby sitter for her best friends kids (they co-sleep even now at the age of 7 so i don't trust this woman's advice especially with it has been gleamed from another person) my sister suggested to give our daughter tap water at the age of 2 weeks so her advice was shockingly bad.

A month or so ago we had an argument over the same sort of thing, sister came to visit and everything was okay until our daughter started moaning and complaining so i said "here give her here ill try to work some daddy magic" and she went on to say "i've done this for a lot longer than you have" and "how dare you question me when i'm only trying to help" " i've been around kids for years" to which i said "yes but baby sitting supervised is a lot different to being a parent, you'll never have to wake up 4 times during the night just to change her nappy or put her dummy back in", i saw my wife was getting increasingly upset with the atmosphere my sister had created so i dismissed the argument until later on the phone in private.

long story short i said something along the lines of " don't you ever bring that sort of confrontation to our house again especially when it concerns our daughter, advice is good but when you start interfering thats when we have a problem, i let you in out of the benefit of doubt but don't push it, you're on thin ice" to where she hung up and called me back 15 minutes later crying her eyes out (normal defence mechanism for her) saying she's sorry etc etc. This was erratic and irrational behaviour so i dismissed it straight away. But i gave her a 3rd chance and now she seems to not even be bothered in the slightest, saying nothing or replying with just emojis after sending her a video of a recent milestone. So my question is, do i even entertain her? and also..am i being unreasonable?. I know this is a long one so thank you for any replies but this is a story that relied on the back story being told.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:01

bettypalmer · 14/10/2023 17:59

You are the one that added that to you story not me. Maybe think about the details you add in Future if you don't want them noticed.
Also, don't tell me good night at 5.48 sounds like your the patronising condescending one right now, not your sister?

okay betty.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 14/10/2023 18:02

This man has been subjected to horrible behaviour by his mother, including hugely inappropriate sexual behaviour and the only take people are getting is about co-sleeping??? Fucking hell, take a day off!

OP, I'm glad you feel able to stand up to your sister. She sounds no better than your mother. You should parent your child as you see fit and you are not obliged to take advice from her. The co-sleeping thing is a none issue. It's not something I would have done but many do and each to their own. Next time your sister interferes just ignore her or say you've got this. Boundaries and confidence in yourself and your family is what matters here.

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 14/10/2023 18:03

Well a babysitter shouldn't be co-sleeping that's for sure. So she herself has no personal experience there anyway.

Ignoring co-sleeping (and it's not something I was keen to do either because I never felt rested so felt I wasn't as good a parent as when I slept in a separate bed) your sister sounds like a know it all who enjoys being better and knowing more than you.

If you want to keep her in your life, put strict boundaries in and don't try for a 'close' relationship until she proves she can be trusted - instead of waiting for her to prove that you should not trust her. Err in the side of protecting yourself and your family.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:04

molotovcupcakes · 14/10/2023 18:00

Can't you consider the long run and the benifits having extended family might bring to your daughter? It seems that you both need to chill out a bit and give things time to settle.
My children benifited from having an aunt who they have stayed with over the years and see from time to time and it can be good, just let it settle down a bit and give her a chance.

well that was the idea of going on here, nearly all the people we've discussed this with including my father who was present at the time where my sister was causing an atmosphere. i've been trying to update her but now she seems to totally distance herself, she didn't realise that it was the things she said that was wrong, not herself as a person. Is that where the "time heals" comes into place?

OP posts:
LadyWhineglass · 14/10/2023 18:04

I’m confused. Does your sister have children or is she just a babysitter?

TheShellBeach · 14/10/2023 18:04

<settles down with popcorn>

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 14/10/2023 18:07

I don't agree with long term benefits of an extended family merely for the sake of them being family. They have to be genuinely good people, not just not horrifically bad.

But, I have far more extended family to choose from so that's easier for me to say. Does your wife have family that you can have as the extended family?

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:07

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 14/10/2023 18:03

Well a babysitter shouldn't be co-sleeping that's for sure. So she herself has no personal experience there anyway.

Ignoring co-sleeping (and it's not something I was keen to do either because I never felt rested so felt I wasn't as good a parent as when I slept in a separate bed) your sister sounds like a know it all who enjoys being better and knowing more than you.

If you want to keep her in your life, put strict boundaries in and don't try for a 'close' relationship until she proves she can be trusted - instead of waiting for her to prove that you should not trust her. Err in the side of protecting yourself and your family.

Thank you for your response, however i must correct you as she wasn't co-sleeping, the parents she was getting her advice from is still co-sleeping with her 7 year old. It dosen't mean they're bad people or parents, i just found it suspicious. It was a tiny tiny sign that maybe we should err on the side of caution in regards to the advice we take in as that combined with suggesting water at 2 weeks was enough to make us feel a bit uneasy.

OP posts:
Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:08

LadyWhineglass · 14/10/2023 18:04

I’m confused. Does your sister have children or is she just a babysitter?

just a baby sitter.

OP posts:
Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:11

I'm wondering if your mother was maybe the only one who was toxic and everyone else was just caught in the cross hairs. Maybe you have all ended up damaged by it and having difficult relationships with each other but none of you are actually the source of it. The reason I'm wondering this is that your sister distancing herself from you might suggest that she thinks that you are toxic. It's possible that you all have misdirected anger that actually belongs to your mother, not each other.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:12

TheFormidableMrsC · 14/10/2023 18:02

This man has been subjected to horrible behaviour by his mother, including hugely inappropriate sexual behaviour and the only take people are getting is about co-sleeping??? Fucking hell, take a day off!

OP, I'm glad you feel able to stand up to your sister. She sounds no better than your mother. You should parent your child as you see fit and you are not obliged to take advice from her. The co-sleeping thing is a none issue. It's not something I would have done but many do and each to their own. Next time your sister interferes just ignore her or say you've got this. Boundaries and confidence in yourself and your family is what matters here.

firstly, i'm glad you said it... this is why its so hard to give her the 3rd chance 1. its a third chance... i feel only doormats give that sort of treatment, i just don't want her to think she can just waltz in and cry herself out of trouble whenever she feels like it. Boundaries definitely have to be put in place but now she hardly replies but she said she wanted to be kept updated? Thanks for your response though its very much appreciated.

OP posts:
Apossum · 14/10/2023 18:12

I think that, honestly, you’re making a mountain out of a molehill about your examples of her ‘toxic’ behaviour because you were treated badly in your childhood by your mother and you seem to be transferring the blame of that onto your sister.
Unasked-for advice is constant as a new parent, just shrug it off, no need to get into big discussions and debates over it.
You were very aggressive in your ‘thin ice’ comments, so to then call her irrational and erratic for being upset by that and calling you back to apologise is very strange.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:14

Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:11

I'm wondering if your mother was maybe the only one who was toxic and everyone else was just caught in the cross hairs. Maybe you have all ended up damaged by it and having difficult relationships with each other but none of you are actually the source of it. The reason I'm wondering this is that your sister distancing herself from you might suggest that she thinks that you are toxic. It's possible that you all have misdirected anger that actually belongs to your mother, not each other.

i've often thought this myself, i don't blame myself really considering what happened, i lost the most vital parts of my teens due to depression and anxiety, especially social anxiety so there is a lot of animosity there i'm just not sure on how to play this.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 14/10/2023 18:14

GFB · 14/10/2023 17:03

I dont think you're being unreasonable and you should think about stopping contact with your sister.
Focus on your new family with your wife and little girl.

I agree. She’s upsetting you and your wife, and soon she’ll start to upset your child if she goes on like this. No parent needs a childless woman aggressively telling them that they’re parenting incorrectly and that she knows best. And your child doesn’t need an overbearing aunt in her life.

DinnaeFashYersel · 14/10/2023 18:16

Your interactions with others in the thread make it clear why your relationship is the way it is.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:17

Apossum · 14/10/2023 18:12

I think that, honestly, you’re making a mountain out of a molehill about your examples of her ‘toxic’ behaviour because you were treated badly in your childhood by your mother and you seem to be transferring the blame of that onto your sister.
Unasked-for advice is constant as a new parent, just shrug it off, no need to get into big discussions and debates over it.
You were very aggressive in your ‘thin ice’ comments, so to then call her irrational and erratic for being upset by that and calling you back to apologise is very strange.

because you can't really relay tone of voice and other factors on messages i can't best describe how nasty she was acting. i failed to mention that my wife walked in on the phone call half way through and she was going to say something until my sister uttered "its got fucking nothing to do with you". I must insist her behaviour was very disturbing to both my wife and i and my father that was present during the confrontation.

OP posts:
Insommmmnia · 14/10/2023 18:17

How is someone crying and apologising for doing something wrong irrational and erratic behaviour

That plus your tenancy to blame your sister for your mother's behaviour and your responses to posters answers that you dont like makes you come across as mysoginistic

WeeStyleIcon · 14/10/2023 18:18

I second grey rocking. It's like your mother's perception of herself is that she is a good mother Confused I literally opened my mouth in shock reading that she had sex with you a metre a way. That beggars belief.

Try to accept (it's so hard, I know) that they will never see things the way you see them as your perspective challenges their rosy view of themselves, so keep it bland. The weather is a little warmer than usual for October. Cards. Impersonal gifts to the value of 20 quid or under. Take 8 hours to reply to a text with a cheery bland response that isn't a question. xx

LadyWhineglass · 14/10/2023 18:20

Maybe they’re cosleeping because they don’t have enough bedrooms?

Apossum · 14/10/2023 18:21

chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:17

because you can't really relay tone of voice and other factors on messages i can't best describe how nasty she was acting. i failed to mention that my wife walked in on the phone call half way through and she was going to say something until my sister uttered "its got fucking nothing to do with you". I must insist her behaviour was very disturbing to both my wife and i and my father that was present during the confrontation.

Show quote history

I see. That is very relevant information, it seems a shame it wasn’t included as context in your opening post. It sounds, with your added details, as though you both had your part to play in an escalating situation.
I stand by that it is unfair and misguided to lay the blame for your mothers behaviour at your sisters door but if you feel the relationship with your sister is unhealthy or that it causes you or your wife upset, you wouldn’t be in the wrong to limit your interactions with her.

TheShellBeach · 14/10/2023 18:22

LadyWhineglass · 14/10/2023 18:20

Maybe they’re cosleeping because they don’t have enough bedrooms?

Maybe.
I'm not sure why the OP is so opposed to it.

Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:23

chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:14

i've often thought this myself, i don't blame myself really considering what happened, i lost the most vital parts of my teens due to depression and anxiety, especially social anxiety so there is a lot of animosity there i'm just not sure on how to play this.

Show quote history

I did initially suggest trying the 'grey rock' method but the more I read the more I wonder if her being toxic is really the problem. I suspect that she has suffered as much as you have. Her need to sound like she knows it all and has more experience than you might be more to do with a lack of confidence than a toxic personality.

Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:23

Insommmmnia · 14/10/2023 18:17

How is someone crying and apologising for doing something wrong irrational and erratic behaviour

That plus your tenancy to blame your sister for your mother's behaviour and your responses to posters answers that you dont like makes you come across as mysoginistic

because it was only when i mentioned its her last chance that she started to apologise but frantically, crazy almost. My wife was upset after she left and tears were shed so i'm more concerned for my wife's feelings than my sister who caused the commotion in the first place. And of course im mysoginistic for caring for my daughter and wife, doing the best i can to financially provide and protect them. I'm also mysoginistic for wanting discussions to be about the the issue at hand and not a 3 word sentence that was merely used as an example.

OP posts:
Original poster
chonkylegs · 14/10/2023 18:24

Iknowthis1 · 14/10/2023 18:23

I did initially suggest trying the 'grey rock' method but the more I read the more I wonder if her being toxic is really the problem. I suspect that she has suffered as much as you have. Her need to sound like she knows it all and has more experience than you might be more to do with a lack of confidence than a toxic personality.

Show quote history

oh she wasn't damaged by any of our mothers teachings or parenting type. She blossomed, i plummeted.

OP posts:
OrderOfTheKookaburra · 14/10/2023 18:26

Oh for FFS who cares about the co-sleeping?!

And op if you read my post I didn't say she was co sleeping, I said that given she wasn't co sleeping she didn't have personal experience to give you advice about that.