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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry with teacher about commenting on pupil appearance

136 replies

Drizzlydrizzle12 · 13/10/2023 19:58

What do you think about what this teacher said today. He's a supply until Xmas.

Recently when the children line up for assembly he's been saying about them being smart and commenting on their appearance saying they don't look smart enough.

Today he gave a reward point to a girl because she had really shiny shoes. They are that shiny leather material and some of the other children will never have shoes that material so I feel its unfair. They are yr6 so beginning to become aware of their appearance. I just think personally he shouldn't be doing this.

Also what about the children in the class who I know live in difficult circumstances and its not their fault that their uniform is messy. It just places more anxiety to them and points out the gap between the well looked after children and those who aren't. Aibu to be mad at the teacher?

OP posts:
iovebread · 14/10/2023 10:22

5foot5 · 14/10/2023 00:54

Oh FFS. Did you not read the OP? She mentioned that a child had been given a reward for shiny shoes and implied that this was because the child had been bought a pair of shoes that were naturally shiny. My point was that clean shoes are within everyone's reach whatever their income.

But oh, yes of course, all I was taught at school was shoe shining! No my parents taught me that because we were not well off and needed to look after whatever we had.

A phrase I see an awful lot on mumsnet is "It's not a race to the bottom." So why doesn't this apply here. Some children unfortunately are in circumstances which compromise their ability to appear smart and clean at school. Does this mean that any expectation of clean and tidy appearance should be abandoned for all pupils? Obviously do not victimise the pupils in difficult circumstances. But is it really so unreasonable to suggest pupils of 10 or 11, with no known problems, should be able to turn up reasonably tidy, shirts tucked in, shoes clean, etc.

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FFS?? you're a boomer with ZERO context of today's children and situation. that teacher is a DISGRACE.

why do you have to give a historical account of how perfect your shoes were when that has no context to a child today being given reward points for fookin shiny shoes, as someone else put it.

StarlightLime · 14/10/2023 10:24

How peculiar your little rants are, @iovebread. You've got issues...

dandelionandburdock36 · 14/10/2023 10:24

Raise it with your employer then. Mumsnet is hardly the place to bring a grievance up.

iovebread · 14/10/2023 10:25

theleafandnotthetree · 14/10/2023 09:45

I don't want to patronise you but this broke my heart a little. You sound wonderful then and now.

Not quite the sane thing but I coach a girls football team and there is a girl on it being dragged up as they say. For us this manifests in difficult behaviour, rudeness towards us and the other girls, pushiness etc. I can understand the behaviour and where it comes from and of course we do praise and encourage but I also think it would be remiss of us - not to mention unfair to the other girls - not to pull her up on behaviour, point out our expectations etc. Ultimately, the surrounding adults in her life other than her parents have a role to play in supporting her to act in ways likely to benefit her in the long run. Because if we don't, her peers sure as hell will let her know in much tougher ways.

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you mean her bullies, not peers.

StarlightLime · 14/10/2023 10:29

A few of them actually said oh that's not fair when he said about point for shiny shoes
Yeah, sure they did.

WanderingWitches · 14/10/2023 10:29

Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie · 13/10/2023 22:15

Our primary school gives free school uniform (super soft, sensory friendly branded polo and jumper) to any kid that doesn't have one, and turns a blind eye to shoes as long as they're sensible and trousers as long as they're dark. It allows any coats, any hair bobbles, nail varnish, jewellery. There are no restrictions on hair style or colour. Kids wear non school uniform on their birthdays.

It also averages a 98% attendance, 4% above the national average, despite 1 in 4 children being on the SEN register.

It's amazing how much more learning can be achieved by happy, settled, supported kids.

Edited

That sounds really wonderful

iovebread · 14/10/2023 10:30

rolllofthunder · 14/10/2023 09:20

As someone who was ostracised and later bullied for my dishevelled appearance, throughout primary and into secondary school, I find the teacher's behaviour alarming. I was asked, by the teacher at my primary school not to attend school trips because my clothes were dirty, I was given clothes to wear by the teacher, and the whole class knew this, and I was lectured on how to keep myself clean and tidy.

Furthermore, at secondary school, my work was held up in front of the class and ridiculed because the workbook was dirty and the covers torn (as a result of being caught up in a particularly volatile incident at home). I can remember the whole class laughing and I fought back tears of humiliation. I can also recall the teacher doing nothing when a couple of girls related the state of my family home to all the class, after they found their way there. Again, I was humiliated and felt totally unsafe because the teacher did nothing to stop the bullying.

Teachers often know little about a pupil's home life, and they often know little about the true dynamics between pupils. If a pupil is really scruffy, it is often an indicator of something else and it hardly ever means the pupil is just idle and couldn't care less.

I must add that I am not referring to the 'tuck your shirt in', 'pull your socks up' type of commands, but rather to the singling out of pupils who 'don't look smart enough' in public places.

some teacher suck so bad they deserve prison. i consider this child abuse and bullying. i had a few bad teachers too and i honestly cannot stand our education system then and today, the acceptance of teachers with crappy degrees and constant incentives to keep them (literally throwing money at people subpar), and low standards to hire them. did you also know that private school don't even have to have qualified teachers to teach there? i feel so bad for children today, it's worse now for them.

you are brave to share this. thank you for sharing. Hoping you live a beautiful life now to make up for your childhood. take care.

BlackBean2023 · 14/10/2023 10:31

This is why we have a teacher recruitment and retention crisis.

Brrrrrrrrrrrr · 14/10/2023 10:34

Pride in one’s appearance in a huge life skill.

iovebread · 14/10/2023 10:35

StarlightLime · 14/10/2023 10:24

How peculiar your little rants are, @iovebread. You've got issues...

i've got issues because i don't agree with you, boomer?? lol

stop sharing your life stories from a century ago with younger people today especially as you dismiss what younger people go through.

you think it's "Teaching" to reward points for shiny shoes is not the same as "i looked after my shoes when i was a wee lad". what does that have anything to do with OP's post?

i bet you go around randomly telling people "stop buying cappucions and avocados" too, never understanding context and appropriate behaviour of an adult towards a child

StarlightLime · 14/10/2023 10:36

Wow... 🙄

2old4thisshit · 14/10/2023 10:39

I am a teacher in primary, I would ask children to make sure their shirts are tucked in etc. I would only comment on actual clothing if it was too small/tight for the child, I have them spoken to the parent and suggested they get the next size up. A lot of my children seem to want to hang their jumpers around their necks as if it’s a scarf, these are removed. When walking to assembly I have taught them to walk smartly, keep to left, no talking and fingers on their lips if they think they may talk. They are also told look smart, think smart. Not meaning scruffy clothing, shoes etc, meaning walking sensibly, no slouching etc.

Oysterbabe · 14/10/2023 10:40

I dont see an issue with it. Dressing smart for school is a reasonable expectation.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 14/10/2023 10:41

Brrrrrrrrrrrr · 14/10/2023 10:34

Pride in one’s appearance in a huge life skill.

Yeah because 10 yo Jimmy with the battered shoes with the soles falling off has that choice.Confused

BravoMyDear · 14/10/2023 10:42

jannier · 14/10/2023 00:10

Hey kid you get extra credit for having wealthy parents whilst scruff boy at the back with the charity box hand me downs no watch and needing a haircut what do your parents do buy food and electric rather than new clothes???? Demerit for you poor boy.

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That’s one hell of a reach, watch you don’t pull a muscle there 🙄

gavisconismyfriend · 14/10/2023 10:51

There will be some children doing their best to get themselves, and possibly younger siblings, to school without parental support. Or might come from homes where poverty means limited opportunities for washing uniform. They will already be painfully aware of the gaps between them and their peers, a teacher pointing it out could be really destructive. They are the children who need to be praised for their efforts, not belittled. If this is happening frequently then I would definitely flag it - gently with the teacher at first, to give him opportunity to rethink, then further if he continues.

tiggergoesbounce · 14/10/2023 11:01

It all depends how it was said and his attitude to others.

Saying a child has shiny shoes in itself is not a bad thing, providing he praises the other children for something

Of course children who are struggling will be aware of the gap and i would hope the teacher would be aware of the individuals situation and find ways to raise them also.

StarlightLime · 14/10/2023 11:04

Maybe the kid with the shiny shoes was one of the disadvantaged ones, and he chose her perma shiny footwear as a way of giving her a reward point he would have struggled to give for anything else?

cardibach · 14/10/2023 11:30

Passepartoute · 14/10/2023 08:33

It really isn't. Teachers have much better things to do with their time.

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Perhaps you should explain this to the senior teachers at various schools who have been a bit narked with me if I haven’t checked and they find someone with incorrect uniform…
I tend to agree it’s a bit self defeating (for many reasons) but teachers are absolutely expected to do it in many schools. As a supply teacher I lean towards more strict/stickler for rules as I have no idea of the ethos of a particular establishment and I don’t want to give the impression of being a soft touch before I even start teaching - supply work is tough enough. I’m secondary though.

Cockmigrant · 14/10/2023 12:10

What's the school's uniform policy? Are they doing some kind of focus on this at the moment - ie. teachers need to be paying more attention to it/praising those who look smart and pointing out where a child is not meeting the uniform standards? Have teachers been told to work on it and he's trying to do what he's been asked but it's ended up being a bit clumsy?

Personally I think the whole thing is a load of bullshit - taught for many years in primary schools. Far too much time is wasted on whether children are wearing the right shoes, have their ties done up properly and skirts the right length.
And no, I don't think a teacher should be pointing out publicly to kids in a line that they look scruffy or whatever. Most of the time the child cannot help it.
I was sent to school in the same skirt all week - we could only afford one - one day I can remember showing up with a tomato ketchup stain on it from dinner the night before and a teacher pulling me up on it in front of the whole class "You are a noisy, dirty little girl. What is that on your skirt?" I can still remember it now.

Lilithlogic · 14/10/2023 12:27

BlackBean2023 · 14/10/2023 10:31

This is why we have a teacher recruitment and retention crisis.

I bet you say the exact same thing about any slight criticism of a teacher. What a load of bollocks

Lilithlogic · 14/10/2023 12:28

BravoMyDear · 14/10/2023 10:42

That’s one hell of a reach, watch you don’t pull a muscle there 🙄

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Why is it one hell of a reach?

rolllofthunder · 14/10/2023 12:49

For context, the situation I wrote about happened during the 60s and 70s. In those days, or so it seemed, children were often held responsible for things that often were either outside their control, or indicated additional needs. Children who could not make friends could be told they were being 'unfriendly' by not playing with other children; children who could not write clearly were often told they should write in pencil until they learnt how to write tidily and children who were scruffy were frequently told to dress more smartly for school.

We have moved on from those days, and whilst I agree that children need reminders about keeping presentable sometimes, the reminders should be discreet and teachers should be able to distinguish between a bit of normal untidiness, and indicators of real need.

TheKitchenWitch · 14/10/2023 13:30

iovebread · 14/10/2023 10:35

i've got issues because i don't agree with you, boomer?? lol

stop sharing your life stories from a century ago with younger people today especially as you dismiss what younger people go through.

you think it's "Teaching" to reward points for shiny shoes is not the same as "i looked after my shoes when i was a wee lad". what does that have anything to do with OP's post?

i bet you go around randomly telling people "stop buying cappucions and avocados" too, never understanding context and appropriate behaviour of an adult towards a child

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Came for the interesting discussion, stayed for the insane yet highly entertaining rants 😂

Lilithlogic · 14/10/2023 13:37

TheKitchenWitch · 14/10/2023 13:30

Came for the interesting discussion, stayed for the insane yet highly entertaining rants 😂

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x3 😁