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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry with teacher about commenting on pupil appearance

136 replies

Drizzlydrizzle12 · 13/10/2023 19:58

What do you think about what this teacher said today. He's a supply until Xmas.

Recently when the children line up for assembly he's been saying about them being smart and commenting on their appearance saying they don't look smart enough.

Today he gave a reward point to a girl because she had really shiny shoes. They are that shiny leather material and some of the other children will never have shoes that material so I feel its unfair. They are yr6 so beginning to become aware of their appearance. I just think personally he shouldn't be doing this.

Also what about the children in the class who I know live in difficult circumstances and its not their fault that their uniform is messy. It just places more anxiety to them and points out the gap between the well looked after children and those who aren't. Aibu to be mad at the teacher?

OP posts:
CosyFluffBooBoo · 14/10/2023 07:50

I don't think primary school children need to look smart, just clean, rested, fed, comfy and ready to learn and socialise.

DinnaeFashYersel · 14/10/2023 07:54

Never ceased to be amazed about the things that parents get worked up about.

Jeezo let the child get a bit of praise for something.

cansu · 14/10/2023 07:56

You clearly don't like him. Are you the class TA? Tbh I have seen some very unsupportive and sneery TAs with new or supply staff.

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 07:59

I grew up in one of those deprived and neglected type of homes. Teachers making comments around that age (well maybe a year or two older) did me a favour really, if I hadn't had teachers pointing out that I was scruffy the other kids would have done it for me eventually. That was how the penny dropped and I started talking myself off for regular showers and washing my own uniform. There were some things that I couldn't help, like having the cheap polyester blazer instead of the expensive woollen one most kids had but there are things children can do themselves.

Original poster
Drizzlydrizzle12 · 14/10/2023 08:05

Tamuchly · 14/10/2023 07:37

I’m a TA in a year 6 class and I make a lot of comments to children about their appearance every day. I notice new hairstyles, remind them about the make up rule discreetly, ask them to wash their hands, notice muddy trousers, ask about cuts and grazes, remind them to wear or not wear their jumper for certain activities and comment also if they are looking really smart. I also notice when someone in the class doesn’t look as together as they normally do and try to get to the bottom of it. Our uniform is non compulsory but almost everyone wears it. When these children go to the local secondary schools their uniform will be compulsory and it will be checked every morning. My informal comments about their appearance reminds them that I see them, that I notice them as individuals and that I care.

Yes I do the same as in our you've got a new haircut that's nice and obviously no makeup as that's the school rules. Or if they need their jumper for p.e. What I wouldn't do is make them line up ready for p.e and loudly comment on things in front of the whole class.
A few of them actually said oh that's not fair when he said about point for shiny shoes. You shouldn't need to point certain children out in a line for the way their appearance is.
I'm also a new TA at the school and he's new too

OP posts:
MrsNandortheRelentless · 14/10/2023 08:06

This thread has transported me right back to being that scruffy hungry child feeling utterly utterly ashamed, trying to stretch down the sleeves of my too small cardigan and hide the holes. Trying to avoid the puddles with my unshiny shoes because of the holes and feeling scruffy and conspicuous and judged by adults, teachers, other kids.

But that was the fucking 1970’s. I am damaged from that, kids will be damaged from it still happening in the year 2023. FFS. It’s another form of abusing kids who have NO control over this. And it is abuse.

BrightGreenMoonBuggy · 14/10/2023 08:09

As long as he’s not punishing the ones without shiny shoes, I don’t see the problem. He’s still teaching everyone what smart looks like. As adults, they’ll all know to polish their shoes.

ShoesoftheWorld · 14/10/2023 08:09

CosyFluffBooBoo · 14/10/2023 07:50

I don't think primary school children need to look smart, just clean, rested, fed, comfy and ready to learn and socialise.

Very much this. Tbh the anachronistic clinging to uniform and 'smartness' in UK schools (primary and secondary alike) boggles me more every year. Almost every other country in large parts of the world seems to turn out successful educational outcomes and people able to dress and act appropriately in a range of scenarios without insisting that schoolchildren don't wear trainers. I wish an academic study would measure the time and energy that goes into policing this stuff and convert it into the progress in attainment that could be made it if went on actual teaching and learning.

Anyway - I'd be uncomfortable with this and perhaps have a quiet word (with the teacher himself in the first instance), asking him what his pedagogical aim is in making the comments and mentioning your concern about children in difficult circumstances. I'd also be looking at it in the round - what is he like otherwise, do the children like him, are they learning? It may just be a hobby horse of his.

Passepartoute · 14/10/2023 08:32

cansu · 13/10/2023 20:08

Teacher praises shiny shoes. Are you seriously cross about this?? Maybe you need to relax a bit.

Giving a reward point to a child for something that their parents have done is just stupid, and it's not fair to other pupils whose parents can't afford the same.

Passepartoute · 14/10/2023 08:33

Underneaththestars · 13/10/2023 20:12

You are being very unreasonable. It's completely normal for teachers to comment on the smartness and check uniform/shoes before assembly. Sounds like he's doing his job to me.

It really isn't. Teachers have much better things to do with their time.

Passepartoute · 14/10/2023 08:36

WASZPy · 13/10/2023 20:34

Asking kids to straighten their skirts and ties, tuck their shirts in, pull their socks up, tidy their hair etc before assembly is absolutely standard practise. I should imagine by 'messy' he was referring to this sort of thing, not whether their polo shirts were from Harrods or not.

Clearly he was doing more than that if he was rewarding children for the shoes their parents choose to pay for.

Teaching children to make a big thing about appearance rather than hard work and attainment shows a weird sense of priorities for a teacher.

cansu · 14/10/2023 08:43

Tone is everything. Saying oh you have lovely shiny shoes, well done! This seems like a nice thing. However the TA has chosen to make it into something else. Perhaps this teacher is a horrible person picking on disadvantaged children who have dirty shoes or perhaps not. It is hard to see why anyone would do this. Clearly the TA dislikes this new temp member of staff. Maybe she should speak to him if she has an issue?

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 14/10/2023 08:51

@Drizzlydrizzle12 talk to him politely about it. Have a read through your school's uniform/behaviour/points policies as well and see if it's something the school does/approves of or if it's something they picked up somewhere else.

We have a strict no phones policy, one of the supplies kept using their for various things so I just told them that. No issues.

RingALingADingDong · 14/10/2023 08:56

toadasoda · 13/10/2023 20:38

How is the shiny shoe kid normally? I wonder if it was one of those made up rewards for the kid who never gets praised for anything. I often think of a classmate many years ago, god love her she had nothing going for her and the teacher would often say she was a 'good listener' and a 'good friend' (not sure she was either) but it meant she had positive feedback

I think you're spot on

Daisychaisy · 14/10/2023 08:56

Kweenbee · 13/10/2023 23:57

What people who have never been poor often don't get is that there can be quite a stigma around hand me downs and second hand uniform. You always feel like people know. I was also the scruffy kid, mostly because my mum had learning difficulties that had never been diagnosed and also as we didn't have hot running water or an inside loo until I was 11 and we moved. I'd have bloody hated this.

Give kids points by all means but personally I think the "being a good listener" or "working well in a team" type options are much less divisive. Despite what our current government and their supporters might think, sometimes people can't help being poor, and that goes at least triple for kids.

@Kweenbee sorry to go off topic, but what learning difficulties did your mum have? I ask because you write intelligently so I’m wondering what you were up against. In my case, I’m now recognising my mum probably had/has ADHD and a whole lot of other things that made it incredibly stressful to be her daughter. Sorry you had tough times too…

MoiraRosesBaybay · 14/10/2023 08:59

So you are the class TA and you were there. Talk to him then rather than start another thread giving people the chance to run down teachers. If you don’t feel comfortable telling him directly then talk to the head of key stage.

rolllofthunder · 14/10/2023 09:20

As someone who was ostracised and later bullied for my dishevelled appearance, throughout primary and into secondary school, I find the teacher's behaviour alarming. I was asked, by the teacher at my primary school not to attend school trips because my clothes were dirty, I was given clothes to wear by the teacher, and the whole class knew this, and I was lectured on how to keep myself clean and tidy.

Furthermore, at secondary school, my work was held up in front of the class and ridiculed because the workbook was dirty and the covers torn (as a result of being caught up in a particularly volatile incident at home). I can remember the whole class laughing and I fought back tears of humiliation. I can also recall the teacher doing nothing when a couple of girls related the state of my family home to all the class, after they found their way there. Again, I was humiliated and felt totally unsafe because the teacher did nothing to stop the bullying.

Teachers often know little about a pupil's home life, and they often know little about the true dynamics between pupils. If a pupil is really scruffy, it is often an indicator of something else and it hardly ever means the pupil is just idle and couldn't care less.

I must add that I am not referring to the 'tuck your shirt in', 'pull your socks up' type of commands, but rather to the singling out of pupils who 'don't look smart enough' in public places.

Daisychaisy · 14/10/2023 09:23

Agree with @rolllofthunder . 💐 For you Roll. Your message is such a sad one. Hope life is better for you now.

bellac11 · 14/10/2023 09:26

As a society we look dreadful, dishevelled, badly fitting clothes, scruffy dirty hair quite often, dirty shoes that look like they've been run over.

We look so different to our european counterparts who take a pride in their appearance (usually, there are always exceptions)

theleafandnotthetree · 14/10/2023 09:33

Tamuchly · 14/10/2023 07:37

I’m a TA in a year 6 class and I make a lot of comments to children about their appearance every day. I notice new hairstyles, remind them about the make up rule discreetly, ask them to wash their hands, notice muddy trousers, ask about cuts and grazes, remind them to wear or not wear their jumper for certain activities and comment also if they are looking really smart. I also notice when someone in the class doesn’t look as together as they normally do and try to get to the bottom of it. Our uniform is non compulsory but almost everyone wears it. When these children go to the local secondary schools their uniform will be compulsory and it will be checked every morning. My informal comments about their appearance reminds them that I see them, that I notice them as individuals and that I care.

Oh there you go being all sensible and balanced.

Fairospop22 · 14/10/2023 09:38

Yeah I think it’s weird and not appropriate to give reward points for fookin shiny shoes

theleafandnotthetree · 14/10/2023 09:45

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 07:59

I grew up in one of those deprived and neglected type of homes. Teachers making comments around that age (well maybe a year or two older) did me a favour really, if I hadn't had teachers pointing out that I was scruffy the other kids would have done it for me eventually. That was how the penny dropped and I started talking myself off for regular showers and washing my own uniform. There were some things that I couldn't help, like having the cheap polyester blazer instead of the expensive woollen one most kids had but there are things children can do themselves.

I don't want to patronise you but this broke my heart a little. You sound wonderful then and now.

Not quite the sane thing but I coach a girls football team and there is a girl on it being dragged up as they say. For us this manifests in difficult behaviour, rudeness towards us and the other girls, pushiness etc. I can understand the behaviour and where it comes from and of course we do praise and encourage but I also think it would be remiss of us - not to mention unfair to the other girls - not to pull her up on behaviour, point out our expectations etc. Ultimately, the surrounding adults in her life other than her parents have a role to play in supporting her to act in ways likely to benefit her in the long run. Because if we don't, her peers sure as hell will let her know in much tougher ways.

DimOGwbl · 14/10/2023 09:57

Maybe being praised for having shiny shoes was the best thing that happened to that child all day.

Siameasy · 14/10/2023 10:03

Patent shoes are for sale in Asda, it seems an odd thing to praise.
Many kids including my DC wear black trainers to school. Cleaning them costs nothing. Unfortunately appearance matters because if you’re turning up looking messy you look undisciplined and lacking self-respect. It’s a valuable lesson. Should we lower standards because some parents are shit?

Underneaththestars · 14/10/2023 10:14

Passepartoute · 14/10/2023 08:33

It really isn't. Teachers have much better things to do with their time.

Show quote history

Well I'm a teacher so I should know! 😂. If I didn't check uniform I would get in trouble. I tell my pupils to straighten their tie, take off their outside coats, put their jumper on, ask why they are wearing the wrong shoes etc. It's completely standard in every school I've worked in! Yes we do have better things to do but we still have to do this!