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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About this message on the front of a bus?

317 replies

Iop · 12/10/2023 14:18

This morning in town a bus passed me with the phrase Mash'alla displayed on the front instead of the bus number and destination. AIBU to have found it unsettling?
We're in an area with a large Pakistani Muslim population and there were small pockets of celebration following the initial attacks on Israel (nothing violent or disruptive, just horns/cheering/Palestinian flag waving).
If I were to complain to the bus company (I won't - I don't have time) it would be on the grounds that it's unprofessional for bus drivers to be proclaiming their political or religious beliefs on the front of their busses. But if I'm honest my discomfort was about more than that - I wouldn't have felt as unsettled if the message had been "vote Tory" or "Happy Diwali" even though neither of those reflect my personal beliefs any more than Mash'alla does.
Am I being reasonable or Islamaphobic?

OP posts:
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Warum · 13/10/2023 17:11

Iger01 · 13/10/2023 17:07

Do you all get up in arms when someone says bless you when you sneeze?

I'd prefer they didn't, however as it's spoken in English (the main UK language) it's less open to interpretation.

Iop · 13/10/2023 17:17

@Zarah123 I'm interested in some of the assumptions you seem to have made about me.
FTR I'm a first generation immigrant from South Asia, born there and raised there until I was 9. We came here looking for greater freedom to practice (or not practice) any religion. English is my second language. Both my children have Sanskrit-derived names. I have experienced overt and covert racism here, and I worry about my mixed-race children experiencing the same when they start school. That's why I wanted ro reflect on whether I was making prejudiced assumptions about the driver of the bus.
You might want to reflect on some of your own prejudices and assumptions also.

My question wasn't, as you seem to have interpreted, "I feel uncomfortable around Muslims and all expressions of Islam - am I Islamaphobic?" (To which the answer would obviously be yes.) It was "I felt unsettled by a public bus being used to convey a message of thanksgiving in Arabic days after the massacre of hundreds of Jewish people by an Islamist group (which I don't believe reflects the opinions of most Muslims or Palestinians), in a town with a known violent Islamist presence - am I Islamaphobic?" You may still think the answer is yes; on reflection, I don't.
Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.

OP posts:
0ElectronBlue0 · 13/10/2023 17:19

Iger01 · 13/10/2023 17:07

Do you all get up in arms when someone says bless you when you sneeze?

Yeah because that’s exactly the same 🤦‍♀️

Iger01 · 13/10/2023 17:24

I see. I can bless in your presence so long as it's in English. If I say it in French, Hebrew, Tamil or heaven forbid Arabic then suddenly this is threatening to you? Very strange logic here.

Warum · 13/10/2023 18:11

Iger01 · 13/10/2023 17:24

I see. I can bless in your presence so long as it's in English. If I say it in French, Hebrew, Tamil or heaven forbid Arabic then suddenly this is threatening to you? Very strange logic here.

I'd prefer you not to 'bless' me at all, to be completely honest, however if you speak to me in the language of the country we live in then I am much more likely to understand you.
I can speak a bit of German, I don't randomly go around speaking German to people.

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 18:44

Iop · 13/10/2023 17:17

@Zarah123 I'm interested in some of the assumptions you seem to have made about me.
FTR I'm a first generation immigrant from South Asia, born there and raised there until I was 9. We came here looking for greater freedom to practice (or not practice) any religion. English is my second language. Both my children have Sanskrit-derived names. I have experienced overt and covert racism here, and I worry about my mixed-race children experiencing the same when they start school. That's why I wanted ro reflect on whether I was making prejudiced assumptions about the driver of the bus.
You might want to reflect on some of your own prejudices and assumptions also.

My question wasn't, as you seem to have interpreted, "I feel uncomfortable around Muslims and all expressions of Islam - am I Islamaphobic?" (To which the answer would obviously be yes.) It was "I felt unsettled by a public bus being used to convey a message of thanksgiving in Arabic days after the massacre of hundreds of Jewish people by an Islamist group (which I don't believe reflects the opinions of most Muslims or Palestinians), in a town with a known violent Islamist presence - am I Islamaphobic?" You may still think the answer is yes; on reflection, I don't.
Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree.

Given the way India treats its Muslim population and the mass killings, you telling me you’re South Asian means nothing.

Being South Asian doesn’t preclude you from being Islamophobic, which your posts have shown you are.

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 19:08

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Iop · 13/10/2023 19:14

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 18:44

Given the way India treats its Muslim population and the mass killings, you telling me you’re South Asian means nothing.

Being South Asian doesn’t preclude you from being Islamophobic, which your posts have shown you are.

I'm not from India but OK.
As I said, agree to disagree. I hope you find peace in your heart and mind.

OP posts:
Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 19:20

Iop · 13/10/2023 19:14

I'm not from India but OK.
As I said, agree to disagree. I hope you find peace in your heart and mind.

Difficult to find peace when people twist a beautiful sentiment like Mash’Allah, which is meant to protect people, into something awful.

It just shows the innate evil in people’s minds to twist something so pure.

So your wishfor peace seems hollow and empty.

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 13/10/2023 19:34

therealcookiemonster · 12/10/2023 15:39

I'm sorry OP but the fact that it's only because this saying is linked to arabic and Islam that makes you uncomfortable means you actually ARE islamophobic.

mash'Allah is a phrase used by arabic speakers (of all religions) all over the world to mean 'this is a blessing from God'. used very frequently in every day conversation especially when something good happens especially weddings/exam results etc.

this bus could easily have been hired for a wedding and when I have seen that word on vehicles its usually because its a wedding related transport.

or maybe the driver just had a baby and wanted to express gratitude. you have no idea as to the intention.

face it, you are judging the actions of a whole group of people based on what other people very far away did. that is the definition of discrimination.

many people world wide (Muslims and non Muslims) support the Palestinian cause in the sense that they wish the occupation to end and for Palestinians not to be bombed like rats in a cage. this does not equate to support for hamas or antisemitism. it is possible to oppose hamas and support the rights of Palestinians. in fact no one is doing more of a disservice to Palestinians right now than hamas.

I was going to say - was the bus hired to take people to/from a wedding or celebration? That would fit, and I’ve definitely seen that before.

Warum · 13/10/2023 19:57

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Right, because you know what everyone else wants to do.
Clutching at straws there I'd say!

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 20:02

Warum · 13/10/2023 19:57

Right, because you know what everyone else wants to do.
Clutching at straws there I'd say!

Who do you imagine wants to bless you?

Warum · 13/10/2023 20:17

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 20:02

Who do you imagine wants to bless you?

As already stated, you are clutching at tiny little straws.

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 20:18

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Wonkasworld · 13/10/2023 23:08

Iger01 · 13/10/2023 17:24

I see. I can bless in your presence so long as it's in English. If I say it in French, Hebrew, Tamil or heaven forbid Arabic then suddenly this is threatening to you? Very strange logic here.

You're just another race baiter. Nothing to see here.

Iger01 · 17/10/2023 10:22

Wonkasworld · 13/10/2023 23:08

You're just another race baiter. Nothing to see here.

Are you ok? If you want to see it like this that's up to you. You can name call me all you like. I can point out an observation and give my views. Have a lie down.

Wonkasworld · 17/10/2023 10:41

Iger01 · 17/10/2023 10:22

Are you ok? If you want to see it like this that's up to you. You can name call me all you like. I can point out an observation and give my views. Have a lie down.

I'm already laid down, in bed while reading. I'm perfectly fine. Next.

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