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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

About this message on the front of a bus?

317 replies

Iop · 12/10/2023 14:18

This morning in town a bus passed me with the phrase Mash'alla displayed on the front instead of the bus number and destination. AIBU to have found it unsettling?
We're in an area with a large Pakistani Muslim population and there were small pockets of celebration following the initial attacks on Israel (nothing violent or disruptive, just horns/cheering/Palestinian flag waving).
If I were to complain to the bus company (I won't - I don't have time) it would be on the grounds that it's unprofessional for bus drivers to be proclaiming their political or religious beliefs on the front of their busses. But if I'm honest my discomfort was about more than that - I wouldn't have felt as unsettled if the message had been "vote Tory" or "Happy Diwali" even though neither of those reflect my personal beliefs any more than Mash'alla does.
Am I being reasonable or Islamaphobic?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:10

Iop · 12/10/2023 20:23

Wow. I went away for a couple hours to do dinner and bedtime and came back to vegan cheese, the Subway business model, and assorted crusades.
Thanks to those who weighed in re the bus. Plenty of food for thought. I won't make a complaint to the company but I'll contact them to ask about the message and see what they say 🤷🏽‍♀️

Complain, please. Give them a good laugh. It’s not the first time they would have met racists of your ilk.

Tellmeallthestories · 12/10/2023 22:15

Tellmeallthestories · 12/10/2023 18:12

I have lived in Muslim countries and visited many more. It was really common to see "Mashallah" on buses. The gist of the meaning was " may God protect". - a wish to not have an accident.

It would also be said when someone had admired a beautiful child - with the colloquial meaning " may God protect", because admiring beauty could be seen as tempting fate ( or djinn) to make something bad happen.

I didn't associate it at all with the literal meaning of "God willed it", any more than I associate someone saying "Goodbye" with its original literal meaning of "God be with you".

Mashallah generally has a good meaning, invoking a wish for wellness and protection.

I'm not Muslim myself.

Here's some info about the colloquial ( rather than literal) use of the term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashallah#:~:text=The%20literal%20meaning%20of%20Mashallah,refer%20to%20a%20future%20event.

@LuluBlakey1

Warum · 12/10/2023 22:34

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 21:14

Pakistanis have adorned their vehicles with ‘Mash’Allah’ for decades. And their houses for longer.

So much racist and Islamophobic ignorance on this thread. We see you.

You don't understand that Pakistan and the UK are entirely different countries, with entirely different populations?

Warum · 12/10/2023 22:36

JoanOfAllTrades · 12/10/2023 20:23

Can someone please tell me what the heck turkey ham is? Is it just a slice of turkey? I don’t understand how a turkey can be ham. Or is like vegetarian fakon which is supposed to be bacon? But turkey ham is a new one on me!

It's processed meat made to look like a slice of ham but made from turkey and other things instead. It's got a very odd texture, sort of mushy.

0ElectronBlue0 · 12/10/2023 22:41

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 21:14

Pakistanis have adorned their vehicles with ‘Mash’Allah’ for decades. And their houses for longer.

So much racist and Islamophobic ignorance on this thread. We see you.

Funnily enough I bet not one of us here has seen this on the front of a bus in the UK, so why now? Hmm I just can’t think 🤨

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:45

Warum · 12/10/2023 22:34

You don't understand that Pakistan and the UK are entirely different countries, with entirely different populations?

You don’t understand that some Pakistani people bring their traditions to the UK?

Here is a Pakistani bus in Southall, England. This also has Mash’Allah written in Arabic.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

About this message on the front of a bus?
Fionaville · 12/10/2023 22:47

They shouldn't be displaying anything of the sort on buses. Seems like they are asking for trouble.
But then, I don't think they should display anything political or religious in that way. People just want to get through life without that sort of thing. Well, I do anyway.

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:48

0ElectronBlue0 · 12/10/2023 22:41

Funnily enough I bet not one of us here has seen this on the front of a bus in the UK, so why now? Hmm I just can’t think 🤨

Wtaf? Look up Amazon and eBay, there have been many UK sellers selling ‘mashAllah’ decals for cars for years in the UK.

Buy a clue.

Fionaville · 12/10/2023 22:53

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:48

Wtaf? Look up Amazon and eBay, there have been many UK sellers selling ‘mashAllah’ decals for cars for years in the UK.

Buy a clue.

I'm curious. I based part of my answer on the information that it means 'Allah has willed it' Is that what it means?
Regardless, I don't want to see any religious or political messages on buses. Even the ones I support/agree with.

Mumof2teens79 · 12/10/2023 23:01

JoanOfAllTrades · 12/10/2023 20:23

Can someone please tell me what the heck turkey ham is? Is it just a slice of turkey? I don’t understand how a turkey can be ham. Or is like vegetarian fakon which is supposed to be bacon? But turkey ham is a new one on me!

Really? Where do you live? In the UK Bernard Mathew's have been making Turkey ham for years, and Matheson make Turkey rashers as a low fat alternative to bacon

Is ham just a slice of pork? No.
Turkey ham was invented by a Turkey company in America in 1975. Its processed (usually mechanically recovered) Turkey thigh meat cooked and cured like ham.

0ElectronBlue0 · 12/10/2023 23:06

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:48

Wtaf? Look up Amazon and eBay, there have been many UK sellers selling ‘mashAllah’ decals for cars for years in the UK.

Buy a clue.

We are not talking about stickers people have in their cars, we are talking about a message displayed on the front of a British bus instead of its destination.

Warum · 12/10/2023 23:07

Zarah123 · 12/10/2023 22:45

You don’t understand that some Pakistani people bring their traditions to the UK?

Here is a Pakistani bus in Southall, England. This also has Mash’Allah written in Arabic.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Edited

The bus in your image is a decorated bus, not a normal bus where the destination is replaced with a random word that a lot of people have never seen before, and don't know the meaning of.
You can keep telling us what happens in Pakistan, but this isn't Pakistan, so it will keep being irrelevant.

LuluBlakey1 · 12/10/2023 23:13

This reply has been deleted

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LuluBlakey1 · 13/10/2023 01:03

Tellmeallthestories · 12/10/2023 22:15

@LuluBlakey1

I understand but it is not my point- which is that now, here, under the current, awful, circumstances, it is not the time or place to be doing things that can be seen as insensitive or provocative. There are people looking for excuses to take action of one kind or another. It's open to massive misinterpretation and these people will not wait for explanations of intention. Right now, we all need to be more careful in what we say or do- to show sensitivity and good judgement so that civil disorder is kept at the lowest it can be.
Jews, understandably, are scared, shocked, grief-stricken about the terrorist attacks inflicted by Hamas- they are very aware of, and sensitive to, the reactions of the communities around them in this country. They feel unsafe.
Palestinians feel similarly about the way Israel has inflicted a blanket response on Gaza and its inhabitants- in their view and that of many others who have seen it- the UN, the WHO. They are very aware of, and sensitive to, the reactions of the communities around them in this country.

The situation is volatile. None of us should be contributing to provoking actions which will cause civil unrest here- we have already seen gangs (500+ in Kensington) in our city streets, men scaling town halls to remove one flag and hoist another, gangs on the opposite side of tube stations shouting and yelling, protests outside of embassies. It will only get worse and could get out of hand and have horrific results.

Things one side sees as acceptable, the other sees as offensive and vice versa. A Jewish woman today in North London plastering mass numbers of fliers on walls, lamp-posts etc- of children dead and missing after Saturday and Muslim women ripping them down and throwing them on the ground in rage shouting 'What about Palestinian children in Gaza?' Both thought their behaviour was justified and the other was completely unreasonable. In reality, neither was helpful to anyone or going to make any difference other than cause upset.

JoanOfAllTrades · 13/10/2023 03:41

Warum · 12/10/2023 22:36

It's processed meat made to look like a slice of ham but made from turkey and other things instead. It's got a very odd texture, sort of mushy.

Edited

Sounds delightful 🤢

Thank you for telling me 🙂

Simonjt · 13/10/2023 06:30

0ElectronBlue0 · 12/10/2023 23:06

We are not talking about stickers people have in their cars, we are talking about a message displayed on the front of a British bus instead of its destination.

Red rose have displayed it for years.

Glitterdavies · 13/10/2023 06:47

Turkey ham tastes similar to normal ham but thinner.
Bernard Matthews have had it for years.
Go out and buy yourself a non halal pack today.

Illstartexercisingtomorrow · 13/10/2023 06:57

MaashAllah is a normal everyday phrase people use as much as salaam alaikum. I use it multiple times a day…it is an expression of remembering Allah and gratefulness to him.

This thread just goes to show we are, yet again, at the start of another wave of anti-Muslim feeling.

Should I stop say Asalaam alaikum too? Perhaps you’ll all tell me next that I make you uncomfortable when I put a hijab on?

People need to realise that most normal Muslims do not agree with Hamas, whilst at the same time supporting Palestine, and - shock horror - do not actually agree with the killing of Israeli civilians.

OP - I am saddened that in your area people have responded inappropriately to what Hamas did. Please remember the few you see do not represent the majority of us. Unfortunately it makes it worse for us because now regular British Muslims are having to explain the actions of others whom they are lumped in with as one big group.

I do find myself wondering why no one has thought to ask every white British person to apologise for the creation of the Israel-Palestine problem, yet all Muslims now are held accountable as one.

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:04

Glitterdavies · 13/10/2023 06:47

Turkey ham tastes similar to normal ham but thinner.
Bernard Matthews have had it for years.
Go out and buy yourself a non halal pack today.

Turkey 'ham' and ham most definitely do not taste the same - anyone who likes a decent proper ham will not enjoy turkey 'ham' at all. It's up to the individual what they eat, but they definitely taste, feel and look different.

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:12

@Illstartexercisingtomorrow Should I stop say Asalaam alaikum too? Perhaps you’ll all tell me next that I make you uncomfortable when I put a hijab on?

Firstly, you saying something to someone who presumably also understands it is not the same as having something written on the front of a bus, surely anyone understand that. Secondly, if you want to say it to me, then I will ask you what it means in English (being as I don't speak the language it comes from) - if it is anything remotely to do with any god/worship/praise then I will ask you to refrain, because while I respect the right of people to use these words there is no place for them in my life (I don't believe in any god). It's up to you what you say within 'your circle', especially to those who understand the term. Ad for wearing a hijab, well that's your choice of course, just like it's mine to wear anything remotely religious.

We really do need to make clear the difference between Islamophobia and people who just wish to have nothing to do with any aspects of any religion. Both are valid choices.

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:13

JoanOfAllTrades · 13/10/2023 03:41

Sounds delightful 🤢

Thank you for telling me 🙂

It's horrible stuff, don't believe anyone who says otherwise!

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 08:32

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:04

Turkey 'ham' and ham most definitely do not taste the same - anyone who likes a decent proper ham will not enjoy turkey 'ham' at all. It's up to the individual what they eat, but they definitely taste, feel and look different.

Those dastardly Muslims, eating their Turkey ham.

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 08:35

Warum · 12/10/2023 23:07

The bus in your image is a decorated bus, not a normal bus where the destination is replaced with a random word that a lot of people have never seen before, and don't know the meaning of.
You can keep telling us what happens in Pakistan, but this isn't Pakistan, so it will keep being irrelevant.

Edited

And people keep telling you this PRIVATE bus company have had Mash’Allah written on their buses for years and that it’s nothing to do with current events but you have your fingers in your ears going na na na na na like a child.

No one has said this is Pakistan, maybe get your eyes checked? There’s a love.

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:38

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 08:32

Those dastardly Muslims, eating their Turkey ham.

Edited

Ok, I have to call you out here - can you tell me where I said anything about 'dastardly muslims' exactly? I didn't. At no point have I even mentioned turkey 'ham' in relation to muslims, or any religious group for that matter. Turkey ham is not made only for the muslim market, I know lots of people who eat it, and I am pretty sure none of them are muslims.

This is a perfect example of you, again, trying to make something an attack against muslims, when it's actually just a perfectly innocent statement regarding a food product. You are making it something it is not, or at least trying to.

Warum · 13/10/2023 08:40

Zarah123 · 13/10/2023 08:35

And people keep telling you this PRIVATE bus company have had Mash’Allah written on their buses for years and that it’s nothing to do with current events but you have your fingers in your ears going na na na na na like a child.

No one has said this is Pakistan, maybe get your eyes checked? There’s a love.

I didn't say the OP was in Pakistan (so maybe YOU need your eyes checked).
You do keep comparing a bus, in the UK, with a word on the destination board, to decorated buses originating from/in Pakistan. Again, we do not live in Pakistan and so do not have exactly the same cultural or societal norms as Pakistan. Your image may be from the UK, but you cannot honestly expect us to believe there are lots of those decorated buses of Pakistan origin all over the UK, or that it's even remotely the same thing, surely?