My sister's a cow and mum's sad- what do I do?!

[WhatToDoAboutTheNosys]

The basic gist is that my mum's really mentally struggling, is chatting to some support on the phone and waiting for a proper referral for depression.

My DS1 is the unreasonable one. She doesn't seem to care in the slightest, won't ask my mum how she is or have any sort of nice chat you'd expect a daughter to have with her mum in this position.

I'm going to give a little family round up to explain the situation. My mum and dad split up when I was 2, DS2 was 6, DS1 was 8. He's never made much effort, my mum used to try push him to see us but I basically don't feel like I have a dad and don't have a bond with him. DS2 likes to think that she does, DS1 actually does despite him acting being her step dad, but from a very young age.

DS2 wants everything to be happy, fine and normal so just pretends that it is. My mum reminded the both of us that she split from my dad because he got violent with her, but she literally doesn't want to acknowledge that.

My mum's councilling and mental state means she's remembering all of the abusive stuff my dad did to her (I don't know the details but although she's sensitive I believe her). She's decided she's done and will never see my dad again. We've all accepted it, however I'm the one one who doesn't care at all because it doesn't effect my relationship with him.

The problem is DS1 is renovating her house and my dad basically lives with her to do it and will for a long time. We all have kids, DS1 has the most and my mum used to go round and see them loads. DM has an isolated life, tonnes of acquaintances, but she pushes friends away (I think my dad screwed her up good) and only really has us. DS1 claims to be too busy and isn't making any effort at all for my mum to see them now that she's avoiding my dad.

The bigger problem as I said at the start is she just will not be kind and supportive with my mum's depression. I asked her to ask my mum how she was when she was seeing her briefly last week and her response was that she's helped her so much in the past with paperwork and ordering things online for her- which I feel is irrelevant to the issue!!

We used to all pretend that things are ok like DS2 does but in the past couple of years I've got sick of DS1 and call her out because she's often removed and unfriendly (I basically began when she wasn't happy for me being pregnant- enough is enough). The other day I sent her the following message

"I am struggling to grasp what's going on/what you're thinking. Why are you not making any effort to see if mum is ok- that emotional support that doesn't require actions just chatting to her? You haven't acknowledged anything about it that I've seen? Or if you are could you tell us so we're aware of what support she's having?".

There was no reply and there won't be. My mum says she feels my dad is chosen over her, DS1 doesn't care about her, it makes her sad and she misses the kids.

What do I do? Is there anything I CAN do? I would cut contact with DS1 if it wasn't for my DC missing out on seeing cousins and my mum and DS2 would be so gutted with a broken up family.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose if it's so easy, why can't the OP's DS1 chip in and do it too?

Honestly, no. I mean this 100%: you need to learn about healthy or even normal relationships.

Venting anonymously is fine, and even venting a few times IRL is OK.

But:

1. If you keep venting to someone you know about the same person/thing, it becomes bitching and moaning. The listener is well within their rights to draw boundaries.

Eg If I moan to you about my neighbour every. single. day. non stop, at some point you will tap out of it emotionally.

2. (And more importantly in my view) In front of you, your mother shouldn't consistently denigrate someone you are both meant to have an equal family relationship with.

It is really vicious for a daughter to call her sibling a cow just based on the strength of her mother's words.

That is NOT a healthy family dynamic. In fact, what your mother is doing is called triangulation: "A form of manipulation, triangulation involves the use of indirect communication, often behind someone's back." Its goal, or at least consequence, is to divide and conquer.

Imo, a real mother wants her children to get along. In that sense, your mother is a selfish manipulator and a Child, setting out to (or at least not caring that she will) ruin your sibling relationship because she hasn't got the attention she wants. I don't mean this as a moral judgment, but as a descriptor of her current motives and behaviour.

There's no way your mum is giving you the full picture of what's happening locally as well. Plus, make no mistake, if one day your behaviour displeases your mum, she'll turn to your other siblings to slander you as well.

Finally, it seems like you have idolised your mother as being able to do no wrong. Yes, when you were a child you viewed her as sparkly and perfect.

But firstly, as an older child, your sister might not have viewed her that way. Moreover, she might have a fuller view of your mum's behaviour both as an 8 year old, and in the many years preceding your birth.
(As a sidenote, the Harry-William-Diana dynamic is a lot like this because William was older when Diana passed away. William has a more realistic (but still loving) appraisal of Diana's toxic behaviour and adultification of him, while Harry is still visibly stuck in perpetual mummy-as-victim-worship-mode.)

Secondly, even if your mum used to be perfect, it's been decades. She would have changed a lot since then and you can't blame your sister for viewing reality instead of being trapped in the past.

You need to let your mother and adult sister handle their own relationship. And your mother needs to stop poisoning the relationship between you 2 siblings; you can form your own judgments on DS without your mum continually sowing seeds of discord. A bit of venting and moral support is OK but not if it's to the point of character assassination.

@sparklefresh @jammyhand has given far, far better reasoning as to I ever could as to examples why the ds1 has stepped away!

You sister sounds like she's selfish, upset that she didn't get married first, upset at you having DC, etc. using your DF for the building work matches with that.

I bet that when the building work is done, and it becomes more useful to her to see your DM rather than your DF then she will happily go back to seeing her more frequently. But right now she gets more value out of seeing your DF so that's what she is doing.

From what OP said herself, her DS1 chipped in quite a bit in the past, but it’s irrelevant now in OP’s eyes.

OP is not local yet she knows everything (including her sister’s finances and how she treats their father who OP says herself, she doesn’t have a relationship with) seemingly going on despite also not talking to her oldest sister. She has used her sister’s relationship with her dad as an issue, her sister’s work as an issue, how her sister spends her money as an issue. Everything seems to be her oldest sister’s responsibility to sort out their mother while OP who constantly keeps reminding us she’s not local, doesn’t seem to have done near as much and/or doing anything but chatting with their mum.

Her oldest sister probably has a good reason for not doing more than she already has right now. It likely took a toll on her and she is doing what her own mother is doing, prioritising her own mental health and that includes taking a step back from her mother.

This is such a complex issue. I have a similar situation in my family. It’s really upsetting at times. It’s so easy to see things in black and white though, and less easy to live it. The pps are right though, your sister has a different experience of her parents so you will be happier if you leave her to it and concentrate on your own relationship with your DM. Also while it is admirable and lovely that you care, don’t become your DM’s sole support blanket as it will wear you down.

@OrderOfTheKookaburra thank you for picking up on those points that I made!! You're pretty much the only person to have noticed 😅

@jammyhand you'd be absolutely correct if it was all stemming from my mum. The truth is I've had a problem with my sister's behavior for long before my mum's been upset with her and depressed.

I've mentioned previously but the main points are she wasn't happy for me when I was pregnant (very hard to overcome this because he's my world. It was at the same time DS2 was pregnant too and DS1 was absolutely super over the moon for her. We are both married, own houses, stable jobs etc so it wasn't that she was worried for my situation or jealous etc).
She ruined the wedding prep of DS2 because we felt we couldn't talk about it in front of her.
I'm often not comfortable at all at how she speaks to and treats kids that are in her care.

With me living away, yes I'm not there all the time but I'm not abroad or anything and do visit pretty frequently. I see them together it's not all just told to me.

DS1 obviously remembers lots from our parents marriage. The only memory she's told me is finding my dad having sex with the cleaner on the sofa