My sister's a cow and mum's sad- what do I do?!

[WhatToDoAboutTheNosys]

The basic gist is that my mum's really mentally struggling, is chatting to some support on the phone and waiting for a proper referral for depression.

My DS1 is the unreasonable one. She doesn't seem to care in the slightest, won't ask my mum how she is or have any sort of nice chat you'd expect a daughter to have with her mum in this position.

I'm going to give a little family round up to explain the situation. My mum and dad split up when I was 2, DS2 was 6, DS1 was 8. He's never made much effort, my mum used to try push him to see us but I basically don't feel like I have a dad and don't have a bond with him. DS2 likes to think that she does, DS1 actually does despite him acting being her step dad, but from a very young age.

DS2 wants everything to be happy, fine and normal so just pretends that it is. My mum reminded the both of us that she split from my dad because he got violent with her, but she literally doesn't want to acknowledge that.

My mum's councilling and mental state means she's remembering all of the abusive stuff my dad did to her (I don't know the details but although she's sensitive I believe her). She's decided she's done and will never see my dad again. We've all accepted it, however I'm the one one who doesn't care at all because it doesn't effect my relationship with him.

The problem is DS1 is renovating her house and my dad basically lives with her to do it and will for a long time. We all have kids, DS1 has the most and my mum used to go round and see them loads. DM has an isolated life, tonnes of acquaintances, but she pushes friends away (I think my dad screwed her up good) and only really has us. DS1 claims to be too busy and isn't making any effort at all for my mum to see them now that she's avoiding my dad.

The bigger problem as I said at the start is she just will not be kind and supportive with my mum's depression. I asked her to ask my mum how she was when she was seeing her briefly last week and her response was that she's helped her so much in the past with paperwork and ordering things online for her- which I feel is irrelevant to the issue!!

We used to all pretend that things are ok like DS2 does but in the past couple of years I've got sick of DS1 and call her out because she's often removed and unfriendly (I basically began when she wasn't happy for me being pregnant- enough is enough). The other day I sent her the following message

"I am struggling to grasp what's going on/what you're thinking. Why are you not making any effort to see if mum is ok- that emotional support that doesn't require actions just chatting to her? You haven't acknowledged anything about it that I've seen? Or if you are could you tell us so we're aware of what support she's having?".

There was no reply and there won't be. My mum says she feels my dad is chosen over her, DS1 doesn't care about her, it makes her sad and she misses the kids.

What do I do? Is there anything I CAN do? I would cut contact with DS1 if it wasn't for my DC missing out on seeing cousins and my mum and DS2 would be so gutted with a broken up family.

Thank you @autumniscomingsoon and @LadyBird1973 I think you've summed up what I'd been thinking really well. I'm not asking my sister to start gushing and do counseling sessions but just that bit of effort.

She's definitely using my dad, she does have a relationship with him but in the past few years he's had 2 heart attacks and 1 recent scare. He's a super hard worker and she's still letting him get absolutely stuck in to the building. He refuses to take his meds properly too I legit won't be surprised if he drops dead doing this house.

I agree with this. OP, I can understand why you feel your sister is being cruel to your mum, but her age means she has different memories of her childhood to you. It's probably much harder for her than you imagine to be expected to support your mum through mental health problems due to circumstances she probably remembers from childhood.

There was abuse in my family when I was a kid, I've been through a lot of therapy to deal with it. I have a loving relationship with both my parents but I will not discuss difficult subjects from my childhood with either of them because it brings up horrible, difficult memories and knocks me off kilter. That may be why your sister is closer to her dad at the moment- it does seem unfair, but I can see that it's the easier relationship for her right now because he's not bringing up things from the past that she may not want to remember.

Of course, your mum 100% needs and deserves support after her experiences but your sister may not be able to provide it.

It’s hard to see the wood for the trees when you’re as deeply enmeshed in your mums life as you are.

but you have to stay in your lane here. Ultimately you aren’t your mother’s keeper. And you certainly can’t control the relationship that she has with other people. Much though you might wish it otherwise.

the only thing we can do to serve or change any relationship is to work on how we show up.

trying to shame your sister into behaving in the way you think she should is not the way.

1. So your DM pushes everyone away, has no friends and heavily relies on her DD’s for emotional & mental health support
2. Your DM used to go round to DS1 “loads” because she lives locally
3. You don’t live locally & only see each other “when the family gets together”
4. You - who doesn’t live locally - think it’s your place to criticise the behaviour of the DD who does live locally and has been providing the bulk of the in person support
5. Now that DS1 has pulled away, DM is obviously relying on you more & complaining to you more so you’re acting as a flying monkey to get DS1 to tow the line again. You frame it as what’s best for your mum but no doubt it would make your life easier too, wouldn’t it?

I imagine DS1 is completely burnt out by your DM.

OP, everyone shows love and concern in different ways and if your sister has sorted out paperwork and ordered things for your mum, that might be her way. Your way might be offering emotional support.

Standing in your sister's shoes for a moment, maybe she needs support? She's got several children plus a full scale home renovation going on. Maybe she doesn't have headspace to emotionally care for someone else and can see that you're helping and that your mum is supported? You honestly can't force someone to care/love in the same way you do.

I get that it's frustrating. I oversee the care for my parent and my brother is largely absent. He checks in once a week and leaves the rest to me. No it's not great but I'm only responsible for me and what I do, not what other people do or don't do. You'll feel a lot better if you drop the expectations of your sister and just focus on giving your mum whatever you feel able to give her.

It's tough, I know!

Siblings even of the same age can have very different childhood experiences and relationships with their parent. The difference is even more pronounced with a 2-3 year age gap, let alone a 6 year age gap.

An 8 year old sees and hears – and also perhaps suffers, your mother could have consistently said/done things to her as well – a lot more than 2 year old. She may have seen/known more of your parents' backstory and personalities (do you know for sure that your father is the reason your mother has no friends?). Or she may just feel differently from you for many reasons. For whatever reason, she's clearly trying to distance herself from your mother, with the least amount of drama possible.

Maybe one of you is wrong and the other is right, or maybe you're both equally right/wrong. I wouldn't try to force her to behave or feel a certain way.

I think you should stop shitstirring and concentrate on being kind to all.

No two children have the same parents.

Your experience of family life obviously differs from your sisters.

I suggest you leave her be if you want to keep her in your life at all - her relationship with her mother is nothing to do with you.

@QueenOfTheLabyrinth the first 4 points you have correct. However it would massively benefit my mum to be around because she's play with sisters toddler and keep him occupied, they don't go out often or to groups so he's his best friend to play with. DS1 would be building or in meetings (many of them she signs up to as extras on top of her job) so barely seeing my mum.

Point 5 is way off, I'm not trying to palm off any of my responsibility it's just hard seeing my mum so upset when the tiniest effort from DS1 would make a huge difference to her

@kulkovs I'm sorry that sounds really rough for you with your brother and responsibilities.

I've tried saying to my sister is she ok, does she need any support etc. She denies that she does. She really seems to make life harder than it needs to be almost asif she wants to be stressed. The most recent building part she can afford a proper builder for but she's opted for my dad and an unreliable retired builder to do the work which they know will take months rather than weeks.

She also signs up to lot more meetings than are necessary for her job too.

100% this. I missed that you're not local op, so is everything about how dreadful a daughter she is coming from your dm?
How old is she and what exactly is she looking for from your dsis?
What happened to her dad? If there's only 2 years between her and ds2 she must have been a baby when your mum met your dad?
And am confused why she's so keen to spend time around ds1 house when that's where your dad is also all the time?

I understand that you don’t like to see your Mum upset but you can’t control the behaviour and actions of other people and you’re likely to make the situation worse by trying to do so. All you can control is your own behaviour so all you can do is be kind to your Mum yourself and stop criticising your sister. It would be constructive to encourage your Mum to make some connections outside the family and to avoid saying anything negative about your sister to her.Let your sister and your Mum work out their own relationship.

i probably sound like your Elder sister. I will sort out everything for my mum but I am done dealing with her mental health. She either gets professional help or finds someone else to talk to.

For 20 years I’ve supported her, listened to her taken the nonsense. My father died 8 years ago - I have listened to her grief I have supported her. I have taken every happy moment having a cloud over it because he isn’t here. Sobbing her way through holidays, Christmas, birthdays.

I just can’t anymore. I imagine a lot of people think I am callous and mean but I simply do not have anything left to give.

might your sister feel like that?

You can only control yourself and your own relationships. I would just let them have their relationship in the way your sister feels comfortable and continue your close one with your mum.

I have similar experience in my family, but it really is easier to just focus on your own relationships and let them manage theirs

Perfect response.

Your adult sister and adult mother’s personal relationship is none of your business.

You can only be responsible for your own behaviour

Is.the labelling of your sister as a 'cow' coming from you or your mum?
If you don't live there, don't really engage with your sister how do you know what's going on? Sounds like all from your mum and as pp say you're being used as a flying monkey and your mum being a tragic victim of mean sister! How old is your mum?

Of course, it is hard to see your mother upset, BUT you are also being incredibly dismissive of what your sister has going on and the possible expectations that may come if she does give what you think is the tiniest effort you want her to.

You seem to want to paint this picture of her as this horrible daughter because of what she is and isn’t doing for your mum despite her having done what reads like more than you yourself have done and using the reason as that you don’t live local while she does and seemingly put the onus on her more than yourself and other sister. For someone who doesn’t really talk to your oldest sister and thinks so little of her, you sure know what she has going on and happy to judge her for it.

Even with the whole dad situation, you act as if he isn’t his own person who can’t say no and your sister is supposedly just “using him”. He’s a grown man, she’s not letting him do anything and who is to say she hasn’t told him to take it easy. Your mother made the choice not to go over because of your father, not your sister, and it’s understandable in your mother’s shoes shoes and easy for you since you don’t have a relationship with him but your oldest sister does.

Your parents’ relationship with your oldest sister is really none of your business and your concentration should be on what you, yourself can do for your mum as her daughter and your relationship with her without involving your sisters not what you think they should be doing and comparing it to what you do.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose honestly yes most of it if from my mum telling me, but I have lots of reasons to believe her. All things that sadly show she's not who she used to be:
DS1 doesn't reply anything that I'd consider nice and normal anymore on our group Whatsapp. She wasn't happy when DS2 got engaged (because the eldest is supposed to get married first, even though her DP had had the chance to propose for 11 years at that point). She wasn't happy for me when I was pregnant and gave lots of weird tiny reasons why when I asked her about her lack of positive response.
Also I'm often uncomfortable with the way she speaks to and treats the kids who are in her care.

My mum's 56 and is literally looking for my sister to be friendly and cheery to her like you'd get in a standard interaction. As well as sometimes saying "how are you mum?" Or "I'm sorry you're having a rough time".

My mum knew my dad because she got pregnant and he's been there since she was a baby. My mum's previously been going round when he's there so she gets to see the kids.

Now that she doesn't want to see my dad, she's barely getting chance to see the kids which is also really bringing her down.

@MichelleScarn see my last post, I definitely have it from my own opinion which I do wish I didn't have, I'd love to go back to the nice relationship we had years ago

The more you post about your sister the more sympathy I have for her. She's pulled back for a reason and you seem to spend all of your energy judging her negatively for everything she does. You have no idea how she was affected by your parents relationship and you should keep your beak out of her affairs. It's nothing to do with you.

God I feel sorry for ds1! Do you, your mum and ds2 all gather and chat about how she's wronged you?
How much of the convos with your dm are about ds1?
And she's 56?! Is she working to give herself positive activity or does she stay at home complaining about not getting enough attention? Is she friendly and cheery in her interactions?

Your Mum is only 56!? She is far too young to be so dependant on her daughters.

Your DSIS sounds like she has a lot on her plate too, she has children, works and is going through a house renovation as well as having her dad live with her. Does anyone call her and ask her if she is OK? Does your mum ever ask how she is? Or is she just on the recieving end of judgement for working too much and not looking after DM enough?

"my mum has 3 adults she's close to in her life and I should let one of them not give a crap about her?"

You're going to just have to let this go. You can't change people and it's not up to you to 'let' them do anything. Just deal with yourself and your mum. The others are going to do what they're going to do. You'll make the various relationships worse if you keep trying intervene.

My mum's in bad health at the moment unfortunately. She's always handled everything well and when we had to move house last minute at a kid and didn't have money for things etc it was always made as something fun or not a problem.

With her recent health downturn she's really dropped in her ability to stay strong, so yes she's relying a lot on us. My whole point is that she's in this situation and my sister's refusal to give any of the type of support she needs to making it much worse. I honestly feel like a tiny effort from her would boost my mum up hugely.

Currently my mum does complain a lot to me about her, DS2 doesn't get involved because she wants it all to be ok she pretends it's ok. I'm going to take this bit of feedback onboard, I know it's not good for my mum to keep dwelling so will tell her she needs to stop