To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

I taught in a middle class area. Pupils had very little respect for property as they would just get given what they want.

Unless what they want is access to basic sanitation, presumably?

As we didn't lock the bathroom during lesson time unless they had to be repaired they could go at the teacher's discretion.
Unless they as I have posted before they were on a list not to go as they couldn't be trusted not to abuse the system.

Also don’t assume that the teacher or other children would even know. I had horrendous periods as a teenager and regularly leaked through pads at school, especially in the mornings when we had 2 double lessons straight after registration, so no chance to get to the toilets for 3.5 hours. Fortunately our uniform was black so the bloodstains weren’t visible, but I was often uncomfortable and self-conscious about other people being able to smell it. I was so embarrassed there’s no way I’d have told even my nicest teacher.

^^ sorry, that was in response to a post from a teacher saying that no one had ever had an accident or leaked in their lessons.

Denying children access to a toilet as punishment for bad behaviour is not a good look.

It's school, not Guantanamo Bay.

No, because schools re underfunded so they can't afford proper supervision.

In that case they just have to let kids use the toilets and assume the risk.

@MargotBamborough and if your child was assaulted in the toilet block would you say the same?

Wonder in years to come if there will be a class action law suit for those who have had their lives affected by kidney issues that stem from not being able to drink water during the day and have access to a toilet for years of their lives.

crumblingschools so you would stop everyone from using the toilet including your own child and risk their long term health and life.

@Yalta I would be encouraging them to go when there is supervision.

And although schools are locking toilets, they are not locked all day so no-one can have access ever, just restricted access.

If I was a parent at a school like this, I would try working with them and not going in all guns blazing. Bearing in mind children who are vandalising, vaping, bullying etc have parents. Parents need to step up and parent. There is too much, not my child.

Posters who are saying there is no vaping at my school, that is unlikely, even in private schools. Might not be a huge issue (at the moment) but I would be surprised there isn't any at all.

I would expect the school to deal with the offender, not deprive children of access to toilets.

If teachers can't cope with certain children and those children pose a physical risk to other children, I would support the teachers going on strike until they regain proper powers to exclude those children.

If my child is at school with another child who might assault them, locking all the toilets isn't going to keep my child safe.

This is just a lazy way of making teachers' jobs easier at the expense of children's health and dignity.

I would also be fighting for more funding for schools. You can blame the schools all you like, but if they have no funding to rectify problems and school staff are leaving in droves, they are just fire fighting all the time

What does "working with" the school look like, in this context?

@crumblingschools the difference at private schools is that there are sufficient teachers/staff to check on toilets prevent/deal with loitering/vaping etc. There is definitely zero graffiti/vandalism in the toilets according to DD and she hasn't witnessed anyone vaping at school.

Stopping children from going to the toilets really doesn't make teachers lives easier,

I went to school in the 80s, also a conservative era, and there was no suggestion of locked loos back then. Nor were loos supervised. They were sometimes grotty but when have public loos not been?

Blaming disruptive behaviour on Tory policies is nuts. Kids need to be taught how to behave by their parents. Schools need to have proper sanctions in place. And everyone needs access to a loo. Not in lesson times — that’s unnecessary except for small children or medical needs. But in break and lunch of course.

@MargotBamborough I for one would not be encouraging my child to pee on the teacher's desk as some have said they would tell their child to do

All the more reason not to do it then!!

So where would you suggest your child pees if they are denied access to a toilet?

I will go out on a limb and say that most teachers don't stop pupils from going to the toilet, even to the extent of being told off and in some cases formally warned for it.

I know schools are in crisis in the UK (by 'crisis' read ‘funding has been cut to the bone by this inmoral government’, but let's set that aside for a moment)

BUT shortening/scrapping breaks???? Closing toilets???? Whose brilliant mind thought of that fresh hell? How is that going to help? (Please excuse the excess of question marks, I just can't get my head round that).

I don't think you fully understand the crisis in schools. Yes, funding has been cut to the bone - that means that breaks have been shortened (particularly lunch break) because that means that schools can close to the kids earlier. If schools can close earlier then that saves money on lighting and heating (although the heating isn't on much anymore anyway). If lunch breaks are shortened then that saves money on lunchtime supervisors (teachers are not paid over lunchtime so if you want them to do a lunch duty then you have to pay them extra to do so).

Schools cannot hire support staff, even if they want to. This isn't necessarily because they don't have the funds (although a lot of positions have been cut to), it's because no one wants to work in schools anymore. Part of this is the vicious cycle caused by poor behaviour, part of this is due to more flexible working options opened up by covid, and part of this is due to terrible pay which means working in a supermarket is more attractive. Schools also cannot hire teachers, a lot have quit (so those telling teachers that they're awful and shouldn't be around kids PLEASE shut the fuck up, you are part of the problem). Teacher trainee recruitment figures are on the floor. If your teachers have quit and you can't hire permanent replacements then this means supply teachers. A constant churn of teachers means that the kids get no consistency which is unsettling. It also means that teachers don't build relationships with them. If you have a constant churn of teachers who haven't built relationships with the kids or knackered burned out-teachers who don't have the time to do it, then you have to have behaviour management systems which don't rely on building relationships or actually knowing the kids. The 'draconian' ones that parents are now complaining about do the job. If pastoral staff have been cut to the bone then the relationship building and counselling that used to happen with the 'naughty' kids also gets cut.

Break (unlike lunch) is time that teachers are are paid for (which is why they can be required to do break duty but not lunch duty). If break is got rid of, then that frees up over an hour and a half of paid teacher time per week that can be then used elsewhere. Break duties also require permanent staff who know what they are doing and where they are meant to be. If your school has a lot of supply teachers every day, you're not going to be able to cover break duties and the kids will be left unsupervised.

If you can't get your head around why schools might consider these drastic-sounding actions, it's because you don't understand how bad things have got. Posters suggesting hiring staff to monitor toilets or installing technological solutions to schools that can't afford glue sticks or exercise books might need to reconsider.

And if you're finally coming around to the idea that the situation in schools is really bad via what is happening to the toilets, then you might want to ponder what is happening in classrooms or SEN bases.

@noblegiraffe If there are cost reasons for shortening and scrapping breaks, refusing to allow children access to toilets at other times is even more indefensible.

My school doesn't lock toilets during lessons.

Good! Then this thread isn't criticising your school!