Hate speech in The Times today - Melanie Phillips

[HiggleDyPigGeldy]

In The Times today, Melanie Phillips page 26 article: “a small Jewish child, alone and bewildered, being tormented on a Gaza street by Palestinian children who are all taught to hate and murder Jews”

The thought of this poor child being tormented is beyond heartbreaking to me as a mother, and as a Jew.

BUT, how can it he acceptable for a major newspaper to print that Palestinian children are all taught to hate and murder Jews?
It’s not true for one (my son’s closest friend is a little Palestinian boy who is lovely, and his family, who are from Gaza and still have relatives there, are horrified by the violence that unfolded this week. We regularly spend time together and actually have a lot in common.)

By blanket painting all Palestinians, even children, as evil terrorists, the writer is inciting hatred. Which is exactly the opposite of what is needed now to stop the bloodshed on both sides!

AIBU to think that the media are inciting hatr

Melanie Phillips is crap and not a serious journalist.

The problem with our newspapers is that the proportion of columnists to actual journalists has increased massively over the last decade or so, and that opinions masquerade as news

You couldn't be more correct - ditto interviews and even so called documentaries, where it's getting almost impossible to find anything without a pre-decided angle

For me, where Melanie got it wrong was in saying they're all taught to hate jews. It's an awful fact that far too many are, but hardly wise to claim it's all of them, any more than it would be to suggest all Israeli children are taught to loathe Palestinians

The news is incredibly biased.
I have read several articles this morning and, for example

When noting those Israelis who have lost their lives the papers say they have been, killed, murdered etc
When noting those Palestinians who have lost their lives the papers say they have died.

Subtle propaganda.

Children can grow up to support Hamas Well they might, and they might not. And it is in everyone’s interests to do everything in their power to ensure that doesn’t happen.

Education is one thing. Experiences may also be relevant in shaping their perspectives. Are there things that could be done right now to decrease that risk?

I’d say evacuating all the children from that war zone, allowing them safe passage to a place where there is no fighting and where food, water and medical care is available would be an immediate action which would decrease Hamas’ power to influence these children.

Sadly, this is where both sides with arms seem to be at.

You're obviously not taking into account the following from NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence 2019 report on issue:

"The Gazan defensive worldview is deeply engrained into the social fabric of the population. Children are raised to revile the enemy, i.e. Israel. There is limited critical thinking and access to information or to independent analysis. This significantly limits Israel’s ability to influence the Gazan population in such a way that it recognises the actual benefits of not being aligned with Hamas."

It goes on to discuss what could potentially be done to counteract that, but concedes deep penetration is unlikely.

"The likelihood of a narrative or strategic communications plan to have this penetration is unlikely."

Note the underlined parts especially.

Western States also are unlikely be able to penetrate through the Gazan social fabric to undermine Hamas with PsyOps as well.

So....just how likely do YOU think it is that Gazan children WON'T grow up to be ideologically linked with Hamas?

I'll give you a hint....its NOT a 50%-50% chance.

Understanding the reality of living with the threat of a terrorist group daily is very important here.

As for education, the international community has been concerned for years that Hamas has made their own textbooks for Gazan children to learn in schools. Gazan children are NOT learning the same things as Palestinian children in the West Bank!

This is dangerous and will continue Hamas ideology onto another generation.

See attachments as an example.

Textbooks?? What kind of education can these children be receiving whilst trapped in a war zone, with no food, water or electricity? If they are not allowed to leave the Gaza Strip, how can they possibly access any alternative perspectives?

If the 1 million children of Gaza are not permitted to evacuate this war zone, do you think the starving, injured, traumatised children who manage to survive will be more or less likely to fall into the clutches of Hamas?

You cannot extinguish violence with more violence. Everyone is brutalised and traumatised by it, including the victims and those who commit it on both sides of this particular horrific, nightmarish conflict, and in every war on this planet throughout this planet.

You'd have thought we’d have understood by now that there are no winners in war. Everyone loses.

If you'd bothered to read my previous post properly, you'd have discovered that Hamas has been propagandising Gazan schooling for YEARS.

Well before this new round of conflict.

Note the valid comparison between Gaza and West Bank schooling. The international community has been concerned about this for a decade at least. That wasn't the situation before Hamas took power in the manner PIRA wished they could do - "will anyone here object if we take power....with the Armalite in one hand and the ballot box I the other?".

You cannot negotiate peace with a fundamentalist terrorist group that is in the ascendancy and believes it can win. If the Northern Ireland peace process teaches us anything, it's that you have to defeat terrorists before you can get a peace agreement. And PIRA was defeated. Spain also defeated ETA.

That's the true, sad reality.

I mentioned in my original post, I need look no further than my Palestinian neighbours, from Gaza, to find an example of a boy who happily plays befriends Jewish children.

So you know one boy who's family are from Gaza. They don't live there anymore and you're using that as an example of how all Gazan children don't hate Jews.

And you think the author of the piece doesn't think logically?

Good point @Goodornot!

@HiggleDyPigGeldy's Palestinian neighbours did the right thing by their family by getting out of Gaza and as far away as possible from the clutches of Hamas.

It's not possible to get everyone out of Gaza away from Hamas, so it's in the interests of all Palestinians and Israelis that Hamas is defeated. Remember, they use Palestinian civilians as human so Hamas absolutely do NOT want a fair fight!

@Cincills

'You'd have thought we’d have understood by now that there are no winners in war. Everyone loses.'

Unless I'm losing it and you're actually speaking German, I'm pretty sure that's not true. Someone should also go back in time and inform the Normans of this.

They're probably happy to be out of Gaza and have embraced their new life and put the past behind them

If the Palestinian boy the OP uses as an example refused to play with Jewish children at school the parents would be spoken to. It would be unacceptable here to ostracise anyone for their race or religion and they know this.

"I know a Palestinian boy who lives in western comfort and safety who doesn't hate Jews, therefore I don't believe Palestinian children are taught to have Jews," is so flawed an argument I can't believe OP actually said that.

It is horrible for that poor child. As for Mad Mel Phillips - par for the course. There's nothing so bad she couldn't make it worse.

Children are raised to revile the enemy, i.e. Israel

You can present this in different ways. Melanie Phillips does it in a way that is perhaps more emotive or inflammatory. But it is what it is.

The power of the IRA in Northern Ireland was diminished by political negotiation, not by bombing and starving the whole population of Northern Ireland.

And of course you know that paramilitary groups still operate there, and still recruit and kill on occasion.

Terrorists were not extinguished by bloody war. When the IRA bombed Manchester, the army did not drop bombs on residential tower blocks across Belfast. They did not cut off the power and water to the whole of Northern Ireland, blow up the airport, blockade the Irish Sea, bomb the only exit and so prevent anyone from leaving Northern Ireland.

If they had done that - what do you think the effect would have been on the power and persuasiveness of the IRA?

I don’t know what the answer to Hamas is, but surely you cannot believe that trapping and starving 1 million children is going to be effective… not to mention just, humane or ethical?

It’s not possible for anyone to get out of Gaza right now given that the Israeli army blew up the only airport 20 years ago, has built a wall along the border, blockaded the sea to prevent anyone leaving by boat, closed the crossing into Israel and currently is repeatedly bombing the only other exit to Egypt. So everyone inside Gaza is completely trapped. With food, water and electricity cut off. And constant bombing of residential areas.

It is absolutely possible for Israel to stop bombing the Egyptian border crossing and allow children and civilians to escape. They could even assist in the evacuation if they chose to do so.

Bigbrotherpropoganda · Yesterday 14:05
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“The news is incredibly biased”

Not news, an opinion piece and most sensible/decent people realise that her opinions are bollocks.

This is not about you, get off your high horse.

Absolutely this.

And undiscerning readers are often swayed by opinion pieces.

You appear to be referencing WW2. Don’t you see the thread connecting the current conflicts in Israel/Palestine and Ukraine/Russia to the trauma everyone involved suffered in the Second World War? And the genesis of that war in the horror and bloodshed of the First World War? And the origins of the First World War in prior colonial battles… and so on and so on.

There is no “war to end all wars”. Just generational trauma passed down to everyone involved. Look at the mental health of veterans. Evil cannot be overcome with evil. Violence creates more violence.

bbc did documentary few years back
interviewed people from both sides
what shocked me was when they spoke to Israelites they all said they wanted peace
parents had aspirations for kids to be doctors dentists barristers etc
kids had same aspirations
when they spoke to Palestinian they spoke about hate for jews
one woman said she wanted her kids to be martyrs and kill as many Jews as possible
Palestinian vote for Hamas who cheerfully in their manifesto declare that they want to kill every Jew on the planet
it is beyond me how anyone can think that is normal

I assume that the “all taught to hate and murder Jews” refer to the children who were tormenting the little boy (you could hear them being egged on by adults) in that horrifying video. I’m no fan of Melanie Philips but that statement is accurate and that video is indefensible.

The Egyptian border crossing is not closed due to anything to do with Israel. The Egyptians chose to close it most likely because they do not want to import a problem with Islamic fundamentalism (they already have home grown issues).

it’s also a lie to say that israel is repeatedly bombing the border to Egypt. They’re not.

The Israeli army did indeed bomb the Egypt border crossing 3 times in 24 hours. This has been widely reported. You can watch the video, with hundreds of people running for their lives. As a result of the repeated bombing, aid has also been unable to enter Gaza.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2023/10/11/israel-bombs-gazas-border-crossing-with-egypt

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza/card/israeli-strike-on-gaza-s-border-crossing-with-egypt-disrupts-aid-flow-dDrRKrtPvURrsfGZuMVM

Was it called Holy Land?