Family member extreme views

[bitkale]

I have a family member who seems to buy into a lot of conspiracy theories/ extreme views. For example is an antivaxxer, follows Andrew Tate, believes we should all be allowed to own guns, all drugs should be legalised, doesn't believe that racism should be challenged (basically thinks it's fine if people are racist).

He is just so extreme about everything that you can't even have a conversation with him.

He recently went to hospital and gave a fake name because he was is so utterly paranoid about anyone having any information about him. He has a huge mistrust of the UK government.

He had some treatment and did give them his real address and he got a letter asking for payment (because the fake name he gave was not a UK resident). He was just laughing about it.

How do I even continue a relationship with someone like this? He is so extreme, I don't know what to do. AIBU to just distance from him even though I care about him? Is there any way to talk to someone who seems to be basically brainwashed?

I hope he's not in a relationship because unfortunately, this sort of thinking is often also controlling and abusive in relationships. Sorry.

There is little you can do. Different views, and reasoned debate is one thing. Ranting and raving and, in effect, calling the rest of you stupid is completely another. Personally, I'd be distancing myself. When it starts, Id' go with "I'm not engaging with you on this" and walking away.

My brother is not a conspiracy theorist but he does spout some ridiculous shit sometimes. I refuse to engage. And yes, we are not close for obvious reasons.

Dont we all.. have you seen the state of the country

I have cut off from one of my brothers who is a racist homophobic bigot. I tried for years to ignore it but could no longer put up with the vile things that he says. Good riddance and I don't regret it for a second.

Does he smoke weed?

Genuine question.

I think if you can...keep talking to him. He's young. Also be careful with polarising language like 'extremism' and 'radicalisation' - these words have particular meaning in UK law. You could avoid being upset by his views unless they are directed at you.

I've been accused of having 'extreme' views simply because I'm a practising Catholic and want to home school. My family are very woke/with the times and cut ties because they feel that Church teaching is wrong and home
Schooling is bad.

It might be that he's accessing dodgy stuff online but he might just have different views to you?

I dunno...all this polarisation is a bit weird

This sounds more like when he says "the government" he means it in the sense that Americans sometimes use the phrase (i.e. what we'd consider to be the entire public sector) rather than "the government" in the sense that it's used here (i.e. a small number of elected politicians, currently all members of the Conservative Party, sitting in Parliament).

Maybe that's understandable if he's reading/watching a lot of American conspiracy nonsense.

@dcsp Well yes he does mistrust the entire public sector and thinks it shouldn't exist, that's a whole other one of his soapboxes.

But when he says government he means government - his concern is that when we are in the apocalyptic future world, the government of the time will be able to access his health records from the NHS because nothing is properly secure and safe and he can't trust anyone.

As a child he was absolutely obsessed with locks, keys, chains, lockable money boxes etc. He has a real thing about privacy which again is understandable, but it's to the extreme and not helped by the current state of the country.

@Crunchymum Yes he does.

@lavendersbluedillydilly12 Thanks, yes I've been using the 'he's young' rationale in my head for a long time now, and I do feel protective of him and love him despite everything.
I keep thinking he might change, my DH says the same, but as he approaches his thirties it seems less and less likely. I think his personality is pretty much cemented now.
I suppose I'm trying my hardest not to cut contact, I don't want to but I can't stand who he is becoming.

Changing subject is usually impossible. He would never let anyone else control the conversation to that degree. He will just keep loudly ranting and ignore. On the rare occasion you might get him onto another topic, it will last for about 30 seconds before he's back on a rant.

He does work in a very highly paid technical role. He earns an absolute fortune and is very disparaging of anyone who is not a high earner. He does not think the state should look after anyone.

It does sound like such a tricky situation. Is he neuro typical? Could you say 'yes the state of the world is very scary right now - I appreciate.l your perspective but I don't want to talk about it in X circumstance. And then give him an allotted time to talk about it?

In my particular situation my family (two siblings and mother) were obsessed with gender/mysogeny/marriage rights/divorce/rape/prostitution and kept talking about these things in front of our toddler. Their view was that they were completely right about gender ideology etc. and my toddler needed to learn about them. They knew we disagreed with the views and we asked them not to discuss in front of my toddler which became our problem and we became the extremists.

I guess I feel like I could have handled it better and said 'I understand that this is a big deal to you and I will explain all sides of the issues to my children at an age appropriate moment and we can talk about X then.' Then maybe we wouldn't have to have lost each other!

@lavendersbluedillydilly12 He shows many signs of autism - specific interests, sensory stuff, rigid thinking, lack of empathy, routines, inflexible - it's all there. No official diagnosis. He did once self-diagnose as an adult and just very bluntly told my mum he's autistic, but would not talk about it any further.

As for your suggestion, unfortunately I can't really 'give him an alloted time' for anything - he would simply not conform to/ allow that. There is no empathy or respect there. He doesn't care what others want to talk about.

It sounds very difficult for you with your child/ family as well. I think it's always easy to look back and say I should have done X or Y, but you did what you were able to do in the situation you were in. Don't blame yourself.

I do think it might be the cincher when/ if we have children. It's one thing to tolerate it ourselves but another to subject a very young child to his strange worldview. I don't think I could have my child around him for long periods of time so I expect what's left of our relationship will probably break down at that point anyway.

Yeah I was thinking it sounds like very ASD behaviour. I guess you can hope that the fixations/obsessions change over time. I've got a friend who has ASD and he's definitely quite skeptical of the government but his latest thing is that plants are bad for you and goes on about that. Dull but not really problematic!

I think basically you're right though - you have to set boundaries, especially when you have children.

It sounds like you've tried and it's impossible so my last thing you would be to make the boundaries hugely explicit and give him a list of things he can talk about and how he can tell the conversation is over. I worked with a student once who used to say 'this conversation is over' and walk away. 😊

Sounds like you need a group effort. What do your other family members think?

Well their approach is to basically roll their eyes and get on with it. Because he doesn't live at home any more their contact is limited to when he comes up for dinner etc. which they can just about tolerate.

If there was to be any kind of 'intervention' with him I would have to completely lead it (and also be responsible for any fallout from it). They wouldn't really be on board -it's quite dysfunctional. They just accept him really and are resigned to him being how he is. They don't really believe mental health is a thing (hence why he wasn't really noticed/ helped when he was much younger).

@lavendersbluedillydilly12 Thank you for the supportive words. The explicit list of topics could work - although he would probably just not pay attention to it to be honest - It sometimes feels like if I wasn't in the room he would just talk to the wall, I don't know if he even cares/ would notice if I'm there or not! 😂So if I walk out because I'm unhappy with what he's saying, he really doesn't care.

I think I'm just resigned to the fact that this is our relationship and I have to be distant/ put up barriers. Its just sad really.

@lavendersbluedillydilly12 I'm kind of intrigued on the 'plants are bad for you' thing! Does he mean like vegetables, or houseplants?

I wasn’t really thinking an “intervention” as such, just an agreed way of dealing with him going on about random crap.

For instance could you all agree NOT to argue with him about the British government or any of his other random topics. Just smile and nod and continue your own conversation?

Ideally someone close to him needs to explain that sort of controversial chat isn’t ok at family occasions, and he will be told to stop by x person if he is talking about it.

After that chat, someone (his mum or dad or sibling?) could give him a couple of warnings to say “ok enough of that chat, come and help me make a tea” or “well I think that’s the end of that conversation, who want a wine”.

After the warnings a couple of punchier shut downs should happen.

If he is autistic you will need ti be explicit about this because he won’t recognise social clues that people are bored/ feeling awks.

If none of you are prepared to have that conversation then I think you need to accept who he is and limit contact.

The other point to note that as parents to autistic children (or adult children), teaching them what is socially acceptable is part of your job.

Although not as extreme I know someone with conspiracy tendencies which can be very difficult. It started with Covid and spiralled due to the clever algorithms on platforms like Twitter or whatever that is these days. This just leads to an endless feed of this stuff until you eventually it becomes their reality.

@bonzaitree Interesting ideas, thanks for this. My parents do talk to him before social occasions like Christmas - they will ask/ beg him to not talk about politics. Last Christmas he was actually not too bad - it can be somewhat diluted when there are loads of people there (although you can always hear his voice across a room!) My mum gets worried every Christmas though that he will say/ do something really offensive. And when it's not a very special occasion like Christmas or a family wedding, he won't entertain that sort of request at all.

It's a good idea to have an agreed way that we will respond to it though. I might try that with my parents and see if we can agree on a method!

I fear that horse has well and truly bolted 😂

OP I'm reading this all with interest and some bits are so true to my situations. My family take the same passive approach which has been utterly frustrating, and also are uninterested in MH.

You have described my father to a tee. It affected me a lot growing up I've realised but I put up with it as I knew no different - however when my ds came along I went no contact to protect my mental health and the future mental helf of my DS as I knew I didn't want his extreme views being absorbed by his young and impressionable mind and racism, sexism etc is not what we stand for in the slightest. Quite the opposite. My father's paranoia and red pill blue pill rhetoric was damaging to listen to constantly. I wouldn't be friends or spend times with someone with these views so why should family be any different. It was emotionally tough at first but I am so much healthier now without them.
They too are a narcissist and I believe mentally unstable. They won't change. We tried. They also have alcohol issues. If I ever suggested them getting help I was laughed at and demeaned. It depends who this family member is and how much they are in your life but speaking from experience this has been the best decision for me and for my family. I wish things were different but they're not. I can't believe I put up with it for so long. Hugs because I know it's not easy but you're not alone.

Just seen it is your brother
My brother is racist and into conspiracy theories too. The modelling from my father part inherited too. He has been diagnosed with emotionally unstable borderline personality disorder by professionals and been sectioned multiple times. I try and support with txts phone calls but maintain a distance. He might be heading towards a crisis at some point but you can't help someone who can't help themselves. It's hard to be a sibling to someone with these issues. I struggle with it and my mother asks me to compromise my morals to support him alot. I do sometimes because he has no one else. The only reason. Was he bullied at school? I often find people go down this route when they feel angry and rejected by the world. I still find it very hard to deal with though