Burnout or "normal" working practise?

[Stressedgiraffe]

I can't figure out if I'm burned out or if this just normal or not?
I have too much work to do, too many meetings then need to find time to do the actions/outputs from the meetings.
Today I got up at 4 and have done 2 hrs work. Just having a coffee before kids get up and get ready for school then they get a bus at 8. Then I have 8-9 to do some more work then 9-430 I have back to back meetings. I'll probably log off at 530 as I refuse to work in the evening.
Then there is dinner, dogs walking, general faffing for tomorrow and then I'm tired so will be in bed by 9 ready to get up at 4.and repeat till Friday.
Work is all critical too many different things all of the same priority. All my colleagues are also working stupid amounts mainly late in the evening. No extra resource available
Is this the new normal at work or am I burning out?

Same here. I've been thinking I'm going to burn out for years but I keep on going

This is like my company, they will push and push and take as mush as possible from you.

Im lucky now that I’ve done my time working crazy hours and built up a reputation that I can push back and say no. My boss the other day did ask if I could increase my hours and work more but I stood firm.

it’s a fine balance, you want to progress / earn more money but also get the work life balance right.

I guess I wanted to say it’s super normal in our company, my old boss works evenings and weekends all year round. He very much wants a promotion though.

I use to check my emails while on holiday and I never turned off, it’s been very refreshing to quietly quit in the last few years.

We all complain about meetings but nothing gets done. Everyone is working stupid hours. We have a hiring freeze.
Dogs are fine I wfh.

There are lots of jobs that require out of hours work (however much many on MN might deny it). I guess your hours are 8am to 7.30pm if you worked in the evening rather than got up early. That is tough everyday.

Given company push back, it’s meeting time I would try and tackle first, because reducing that isn’t going to cost them anything.

I would talk to your immediate colleges to agree between you what could be reduced. You talk about constant updates, but that usually means it’s information that could be communicated by email.

Once you have some ideas, go to your managers / HR and suggest some moderate immediate cuts - the priority being to free up Fridays for catch ups. Pp points above are useful. Then gather support for a wider company review.

The only alternative is to get another job.

The way you are working is unsustainable. You will burn out (I’ve been there and it’s taken 5 years to recover).

Theres no clever time management solution to this problem.

Are you in a union? If not, do consider joining one

You need to meet with your manager in the first instance and outline the issues and the impact this is having in your life. Then document that discussion and any recommendations. The only actual solutions are they employ more people or they reduce workload.

If nothing changes then have a second meeting and involve HR and your union rep.

See your GP. Take some time off sick if GP recommends it.

Keep everything documented.

Your employers have a duty of care towards to and they are failing to meet that.

Start looking now for another job.

You have to do more than complain, you have to come up with a solution for how meetings can be reduced, see above. It will be a process and it will involve other people, but it’s that or leave.

To those with burn out, what happened? What are the symptoms?

None of us will ever look back at the end of our lives and feel happy that we screwed ourselves over for our employer.
I don't mind putting in some extra hours or working late when needed if this remains occasional and is a choice I feel I am making. I would also expect to be paid overtime or gain TOIL.
Getting up at 4am every day is unsustainable for you, and if the work is such that this is ongoing your employer needs to take action to protect their staff. That would fall their obligations under health and safety.
You are entirely replaceable by your employer, your health and wellbeing is entirely irreplaceable to you. If it can't be changed I would look for another job.

I'm sure many people will claim its normal but in my experience it isn't. Working masses of hours above and beyond your contracted hours because your workload is too heavy is not normal or OK.

Hm.

I see lots of people saying this is unacceptable and it is to a point.

HOWEVER it’s really important to take salary into account when considering what is reasonable.

If you’re paid minimum wage or close to it, this is ILLEGAL, because for the number of hours youre doing you won’t be paid £11 per hour.

If you’re paid a middle of the road salary (£35,000 ish) then this is unacceptable. You aren’t fairly compensated for the hours/ stress/ work.

If you’re paid a high salary (maybe £100,000 ish?) then this is standard. You’re being paid to deal with stress. You’re being paid to deal with long hours. And frankly you’re in a privileged position where you can choose to work an easier, more self contained job if you want to.

so which are we talking about OP? High, medium or low?

• Feeling tired or drained most of the time. -yes
• Feeling helpless, trapped and/or defeated.-yes
• Feeling detached/alone in the world.- no
• Having a cynical/negative outlook.
• Self-doubt.- yes
• Procrastinating and taking longer to get things done.- yes
• Feeling overwhelmed.- yes

Symptoms of burnout

Mid 50s. Not enough for the role

For me it was off the scale anxiety outside of work, panic attacks etc. In work I would just cry and cry. I would cry on the way to work and all the way home too. I couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t look after myself with healthy food/exercise. I could barely hold it together to look after my family.

I had 6 months like the OP described on top of which I was on call 1:4 so was taking calls through the night and weekends: high stake calls with ‘lives at stake’ consequences. Gosh I’m having palpitations just writing this. I’ve occasionally wondered if it was possible to get ptsd from work stress/burnout.

I have started accepting meetings whilst saying I can only attend the first 30 minutes of them, both in the calendar acceptance reply and also when the call starts.

It’s amazing how many 1hr meetings can actually be done in 30 mins.

And the left over 30 mins is still blocked in your calendar so no more overlapping meetings.

I wouldn’t be getting up at 4 am for that salary.

Given the workplace culture you have described I wouldn’t try and complain- I’d just job hunt.

Style it out until then putting in the minimum you can to get by (yes I know it’s hard) and stick to reasonable hours.

With IT skills I’m sure you can find something better x

I don't know but I'm in the same situation. Contracted hours are officially 37.5 per week, but in reality most work up to 70.

Yesterday I worked noon - 1am and that's my day off.

I've also had a warning for using 18 days annual leave this year and taking 7 sick days.

I work 6 - 7 days each week.

Makes it hard to have time to do any normal things.

If you’re paid a high salary (maybe £100,000 ish?) then this is standard. You’re being paid to deal with stress. You’re being paid to deal with long hours

No, you're being paid the market rate for a role. Sometimes this includes a premium for long or odd hours; Magic Circle law is one field where there is a tacit "we'll pay you silly money but you'll work silly hours for it" contract. But mostly people being paid £100k+ are being paid it because their judgement, knowledge and/or expertise have that market worth to their employer. And people don't suddenly become capable of working 80 hours a week without downsides when their salary goes up. People on 100k are just as stupid and slow when burned out as people on 20k.

You would very quickly get sacked following this in various roles.

People who work abnormally long hours usually do it in companies where people are often sacked or quit from stress.

Can I ask why you live like this? Why you wouldn't just get a job where you can have a life.

When I recognised I’d burned out the symptoms were like you’ve listed @Stressedgiraffe but I literally felt like I couldn’t put one foot in front of the other work wise. Like I’d ground to a halt and tasks / situations I’d normally breeze through I couldn’t bring myself to do or even work out how I’d do them, like a temporary cognitive block. I remember the day I phoned my GP I’d sat there all day, not actively procrastinating but flicking through emails, open tabs, documents etc but never actually doing anything with them.
A fly on the wall would have thought I was working.
I’m better now, and never want to be there again so work a lot of self-preservation and have techniques that help for my particular area of work. Things have changed at work and home as a result too, it was the catalyst for positive change which I know that’s rarely the case and I do feel lucky.

Okay. Have a heart attack or a disabling total mental health breakdown instead. Your choice.

Companies that have got into this mode will keep expecting it as long as people keep taking the burden on themselves and not making it the company's problem. When it becomes the company's problem, things change.

I think it's just the company culture. 1 director and 1 head of, have been off with stress then resigned in the last year.
One colleague was emailing on sat and it was his sons christening and his manager us currently in hospital and still emailing. It's bonkers!
I think we're all holding on to Xmas then collapsing in a corner.

It allowed me to buy a house alone and now my focus is on overpaying the mortgage.

Financial security is important to me.

Definitely sounds like burnout, with a side helping of menopause perhaps.

You’re describing our working patterns (NHS, back room, healthcare professionals) for most of the time from March 2020 to March 2021. It took another two years for us to wind down to something approaching sensible working hours (and most of us still frequently work half a day to a day a week over our paid hours). We’re still in a fragile state with many colleagues burned out and limping along.

You have the choice to tackle it (band together with colleagues, present your manager with evidence that it’s impossible to do the job and be in all the meetings, give the manager ammunition to take it higher), leave, or - for a short while until you can see the best way forward - go off sick.

No menopause been there done that.

I think we are collectively burnt out.
Might look around and see what is about.
I have quite a light day today only 6 meetings.