MIL trouble! What should we do now!

[ridingalonginmyflashcar]

I have name changed for this as posted lots about my life/job etc under my other name.

This might be long as I don't want to drip feed.

My PILs and I don't really get on, it's always been a bit strained but almost 5yrs ago there was a massive row and things have never really recovered. My MIL in particular had very extreme views and I have had to tell her multiple times to please keep her thoughts/opinions to herself when they may upset others.
My husband, our children (6&4 boys) live approx 3 hrs from them so we only have to see them once a year (although they do not work they don't wish to come anymore than this and although this upsets my husband as I think he'd like them more involved he's settled for weekly Skype calls)
My four year old son, since the summer has been very interested in "beautiful twirly whirly dresses" unicorns, sparkles, glitter, hairclips etc (things that are stereotypical of little girls) myself and my husband have not discouraged or encouraged this, we have simply given him a choice, just as we do his older brother and he has consistently chosen from the girls section rather than the boys. No issues throughout the summer, he wore dresses with shorts underneath and all was well. My husband got very worried when we went into preschool that either he or his elder brother would be teased if he wore a dress so (as a compromise - to show I respect my husbands opinion even if I don't agree! Very happy for my son to wear a dress every day if he wants!) we tried to encourage him to save his beautiful dresses for home "so they wouldn't get messy" but let him have free rein on what he wears otherwise (unicorn jeans and teeshirt for example!)
During one of the weekly Skype calls today, MIL went on and on and ON about my son who was wearing a dress and even started calling him the female version of his name. My husband has asked her to stop repeatedly but she carried on, I got involved and told her to STOP BEING UNKIND NOW or stop phoning as she wasn't being fair, he is only 4yrs old! Then she stormed off and left FIL on the phone! My little boy was nearly in tears saying to me "why are Grandma and Grandad being mean to me? About my beautiful dress?" My elder one was comforting him saying "Don't worry X, just come and play with me if they're being mean. If you love it, you wear it. You look great!" Honestly, it nearly broke my heart to hear that!
So, where do I go from here? I know she will expect me to apologise, but I am not going to! How dare she say things like "she'll make him gay" and "oh X! Why have you got a silly dress on for!"🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

This and yes I see he doesn't wear them to school but the general point still stands.

Oh dear.

It's the calling other posters names which isn't nice.

@ridingalonginmyflashcar

I’ve changed my username for reasons.

I just want to tell you, and other parents, a cautionary tale.

I had a beautiful daughter, she looked exactly like a mini-me.

Now, when I was growing up, I was a tomboy. I didn’t like all the restrictions that girls had and preferred riding around on my bicycle with my male mates.

My daughter was also a tomboy. Played with cars, action man, subutteo, you get the idea. Wore boy pyjamas and hated dresses.

Well, fair enough. Even through junior school, she would come all sweaty and smelly and say things like “it’s just my manly musk”.

Most of her friends were male and she found girls too cliquey and bitchy.

I missed all the cues, of which there were many! The toys, the boys clothes, the manly musk…and more.

In year 9, just as Covid started, so did the behaviour. Self harming, destroying the house, physical and verbal assaults, the whole lot.

Our gorgeous daughter was beyond our help, in and out of mental health ward, right up until her 16th birthday. It was kind of a turning point as she knew that admission would mean adult mental health services.

About a month after her birthday, she came and told us that she wanted to be a boy. We accepted it. It wasn’t a cure, but slowly and gradually, the behaviours stopped.

So my (now) son, had his hair cut off, has got top surgery booked and is on testosterone therapy. He’s got a beard and moustache! His voice is deeper. He wears shorts a lot and his legs are like a human version of the Amazon rainforest! Everyone at his work knows him as male.

But! It’s been a long journey for all of us and it’s been exhausting at times.

OP if your little lad wants to wear dresses, paint his nails and call himself Rainbow Blue Unicorn, listen to him.

Now, I’m not saying he wants to be a girl. I’m saying let him be him. If skirts and nail polish were good enough for David Beckham, then they’re good enough for your lad!

If, at some point, there are cues, please see them, listen for them and don’t dismiss it as a phase, or even tell him it’s a phase. It’s okay to wear sparkly dresses, nice skirts, have a wand! Everyone at Hogwarts wore robes, even Snape!

One of the worst points in the journey was when my son shared a photo of his new short haircut. Why? Because his forearms were heavily bandaged following a really bad self-harming incident. I didn’t see the cues, I didn’t listen for the cues and I didn’t hear what my son was really saying.

Please tell your MIL, from me, that she can go and stick her ideas in a place that only a proctologist can find them! She’s a repellent and ugly person.

You’re doing what’s right for your boy and both your DC sound like caring and beautiful souls 💐

In some cultures,boys clothes are more dress-like anyway. Would your DS like a sherwani? https://www.next.co.uk/style/ST511168/A56701#A56701 (Also since when do Next do sherwanis?!). Shock horror, boys clothes can be long and sparkly 😱.

Maybe try explaining to MIL that times have moved on, girls are even allowed to wear trousers these days. You can't turn someone gay any more than you can turn them straight. If your DS does turn out to be gay, it's not the end of the world and would be nothing to do with them wearing a dress when they were 4. I would warn MIL that if she makes comments like that again to your DS she won't be chatting to the kids as she can't be trusted not to make inappropriate comments.

Well you have so little contact with them that surely it’s easy to just Skype when the boys aren’t around. If they ask why just say you don’t appreciate their comments.

Allowing children to buy ”what they want” is how children are able to start making the right choices for themselves.

My MIL hated one of my DDs wearing Spider-Man pyjamas or football kits. “Why do you buy that, what’s wrong with the sparkly girly ones” 🤷🏼‍♀️

My 4yo is similar, he loves bright things and has the odd dress. Sometimes it raises an eyebrow, I'm quite matter-of-fact about it just say oh yes he likes it and move on.

Teasing him by the grandparents is pretty cruel though, I'd probably just ask them to stop and then end the conversation if they keep going. Sounds like they'd hardly be a great loss if they did decide to take offense

You do realise roads go both ways? Nothing wrong with the OP or at least her husband visiting his parents. Expecting the retired people to be the only ones doing the 3 hr drive seems odd.

This:

And on the basis of Op's replies to MN I can't imagine she has any problem replying in a similar vein to her MIL.

Boys in times past used to wear dresses and pink no less. ds1 loved dressing up in the girls outfits in receptions. Other boys did too. They are just more colourful and sparkly than the boys outfits. No signs of him dressing in other than male attire now.

Kids like to play dress up. My younger son spent about a year in a frilly purple party dress. Then he favoured his cowboy outfit, had a brief obsession with a police uniform then took to wearing a massive feather boa at every opportunity.

It's just play and shouldn't be discouraged but they do need to learn when is playtime and when is not which it sounds like you're doing. Dress up is for playtime at home and not for school, for example.

Also tell your mil that what she's thinking of is cross dresser, not gay. If she's going to talk shit she should at least talk the correctly named shit.

My cousin’s son went through a phase at three of being obsessed with a Disney Princess outfit and anything sparkly. He wore it almost non stop for a few months, then moved on to something else. He’s at university now and still loves dressing up, but tends to keep it to parties and am dram these days! I knew another boy of the same age who wore his sister’s jacket with sparkly buttons and used to show strangers how beautiful they were. I can well believe some boys of that age wanting to wear bright dresses.

She can fuck off. When my son was that age he loved wearing skirts and dresses. We were in Asda one day when he was about three and he really wanted a my little pony dress when we were buying clothes. I dithered a little, as had the worries of what people might say, but - I don’t agree with the bullshit gender stereotypes that are shoved down our throats and the idea that anything is for boys or girls - so I bought it. He loved it, wore it loads. Yes he got referred to as a girl occasionally, but that’s just because it’s not a common sight. But - he was a preschooler and one of my beliefs is that people should be allowed to express themselves and it felt wrong to teach him “no you can’t wear that” when the reason is “some people are dicks with outdated ideas which I fundamentally disagree with”.

Hes now a lovely, “normal” 8 year old. He doesn’t wear dresses now, but is often rocking something colourful/pink/unicorn, and is confident to know that it’s okay to like what you like. Let your ds wear what he likes. He’s a child, children like colourful, pretty, sparkly things! Until little boys have it socialised out of them!

I wouldnt be apologising and honestly MIL wouldn’t be having contact again if she things bullying a preschooler and making him cry is acceptable behaviour. She’s a nasty woman and I wouldn’t be exposing my child to that. Those kind of comments can stick and get internalised and wouldn’t be giving her the chance to repeat this.

And ffs, I can’t believe I’m still, in 2023, reading comments, on a parenting forum no less! About the “boys and girls section” of shops. It’s fucking depressing! Let clothes be clothes and let toys be toys have been campaigning about this shit since before I had my daughter (who’s ten this year!). Back then it felt like progress was actually being made. We were letting kids like what they like without believing in stereotypes, teaching them they didn’t need to be put in a box because they had certain tastes or interests. I honestly despair at how close minded people are and it seems to be getting worse, not better

I can't believe the people saying "why would you even take them into the girls section of the shop". Seriously?!!

My four year old son has:
🔸 lovely green coat with a veggies print all over it.
🔸Rainbow leggings.
🔸Dark grey leggings with white flecks on.
🔸A jumper with cats on.
🔸A Christmas cardigan
🔸PJ's with cats on.

ALL FROM THE GIRLS SECTION. Shock fucking horror. 🙄 He likes cats, wildlife, fauna, rainbows, bright colours, etc. He shops across both sections.

If I had a girl I might buy from the boys section as the t-shirts and shorts tend to be of a thicker fabric and have more to them. Girls ones are cut slimmer with shorter sleeves and more open collars for example. Or I might want her to have shorts with usable pockets.

I've gone off on a tangent here regarding shop's gendering clothing in a very stereotypical way here but my point is, if you've a young child why WOULDN'T you look across both sections?! They're just clothes.

Mine is obsessed with cats. Which are apparently a girly animal. 🙄

To the op, my kids would be missing the next Skype/zoom while my husband discussed their bullying of our child and made it clear it wasn't acceptable.

I think boys clothes are often better made, more durable and more suitable for active play. I wouldn't discourage a male child from choosing brighter items, but I would steer both girls and boys away from unicorns/glitter/impractical flimsy clothing for everyday wear. (Okay for the odd dressing up day/party)

The post has a whiff - more than a whiff? of stealth boasting. (Look what a right-on mother I am.)

@ridingalonginmyflashcar your PIL are narrow minded bullies.
I don't know if they can change but it sounds like there's already a strained relationship.
So the question becomes, do you want these people around/talking to your kids?
My only boundaries for buying toys for grandkids are no weapons. Toy guns etc, NOPE.
Their mum has boundaries more for teenager gd around clothes that I obviously respect.
I do worry slightly about my gs though, his dad is of the (totally wrong) belief about certain colours for boys etc (because he's a bigot in the rest of his life too 😞)

Indeed. My ds chooses his own clothes. That does not mean always getting ever he wants, why would it? It just means having choices.

My dc was like that at that age. I would have gone mental on anyone who dared be an arse about it. Fortunately family are too scared of me for anyone to try this :)

He is now a teen and very much male identifying, but he still loves pink and buys pink t-shirts whenever he can find them. He wore 'girl' clothes until his teenage growth spurt when he could no longer find them in his size.

Another unreadable long thread sorry but you'd need to summarise if you want advice. Indeed life is stranger than fiction isn't it? I wish you luck with that one.

For future calls make them after your DC are in bed or out.

If they question it then you could make mention, non argumentatively, that its to minimise the risk of upset after last time.

Plan things.

Not entirely unrelated…. My son (late teens) and , particularly, my Dad did not have a good relationship. (My Dad picked arguments spoiling Christmases etc) My son is also gay.

We’d had enough of this and decided to tell my parents. (With DS’s permission) The hope was for a better, more open, relationship. They were on holiday not far from us and so we (me, DW and my parents) met up for a meal and walk.

We had decided that if there was any funny business, unpleasantness that we would simply walk.

DW and I had scripted our responses to what they might say etc etc.

In the event they were fine (and my Dad top trumped it by implying he might have been gay when younger - weird) Didn’t entirely stop his picking arguments though. But worth a try.

All the best.

@WhatsCookingFlora, oh, come off it; there's no need to try and look into my comment and twist it into something it isn't. His interests go beyond the same or particular outfit and he's interested in predominately items intended for little girls. He likes sparkly, pink, frilly, beautiful items in all shapes and forms (good for him!). In no way is such a wide interest the same as liking one particular item of clothing. 🙄

As a mother of a 4 (and some months old) boy, I know that interests can be somewhat faddish. My son himself expressed interest in putting on a dress and tried one of mine on. Then that was it.

How many toddlers, preschoolers or young children go through an interest to this extent?? VERY FEW. So, my opinion still stands; I think it be a little more than a phase.