XL Bully "just wants to play!"

[PumpkinSly]

I was in the local park today with my 4 and 6 year old children. We have a medium sized dog ourselves. She's a bit of an old lady now so just potters about having a sniff. There was a couple with a baby walking their huge XL bully dog around the park. The first time we crossed their path the dog was on a lead but their dog was pulling strongly on the lead to try to investigate either my dog, or my children. The owner was all too willing to "let the dog say hello". I'm not comfortable with huge dogs approaching my kids or my dog so I moved everyone along very quickly and didn't engage with the dog or the owners. The next time we crossed their path the dog was off lead. It wasn't acting aggressively but it bounded up to my DD. My children were playing in a small wooded area of the park where there are felled trees for them to climb. I was helping my 6 yr old DS on one bit of the logs, while my 4 yr old dd was playing a few meters away. The dog bounded up to her and she was visibly scared. The owner was making comments about how much the dog loves kids and how playful he is etc, but to me it was a huge powerful dog that was scaring my child and it shouldn't be approaching kids at all. I told the owner that his dog shouldn't be allowed to approach children and to get it on a lead away from my kids. The owner went absolutely ballistic. Telling me that he just wants to play with them, that he loves kids, that I was prejudice against American bully dogs because of the news, that his dog is friendly, that my children should be better educated in how to handle dogs who approach them in a friendly way, and that I was an irresponsible dog owner because my dog was unsupervised while my children were playing. It's true that my dog wanders around doing her own thing but she is 11, she doesn't go far, I can always see her having a sniff about, and her recall is very good. The XL Bully became very energetic in response to the owners outburst and charged at my DD knocking her the ground. It wasn't aggressive, just boisterous and spurred on by the atmosphere and the owners response to me. The owner then grabbed his dog and left very quickly, while I was left to sort out my distressed DD. AIBU to think the owners of these massive dogs should have better awareness than to let them approach kids? Was I wrong to tell the owner to get his dog away from my children? The dog was at least three times the weight of my 4 year old, if not more, it was at least as tall as her when on all fours, and she was clearly scared by this dog because as soon as she realised it was there she called out for me and backed away.

The dog was drowned, I’m so sorry if this offends anyone but until you’re in that situation no-one knows what they’d do. It was the only way to get it off my dog. DH is a big guy, rugby player build and he’s used to dealing with aggressive dogs in his job, he sees them every day although it’s normally fear aggression which is very different. We tried everything before he dragged it by its back legs into the water. It was smacked with a fence post, booted, punched, kicked between its back legs (as it was still entire) and nothing stopped it, I’ve never seen any dog acting like that before. How anyone can call these things ‘babies’ is beyond my comprehension. I’d personally like to see every one of them euthanised not just banned with conditions ie muzzle etc. There’s been too many attacks now on people and I don’t understand why anyone would want own one.

@BellaAndDave Dear God.
It took that much of a beating and STILL didn't let go?
Thank goodness it drowned, otherwise it's owner would just allow it to savage another pet to death.

There was a mother online whose daughter was trying to protect her.. the daughter grabbed a knife, and was using it to no avail, she thought ''I have to go for the eyes- and that was the only thing that got the monster to release her mother.

This was an XL known to them.

The mother has her arm bones pinned and multiple lacerations.

A father went to visit his daughter, and was attracted by her Pitbull {they are called 'Pitbulls' in USA.
This shows the damage done.

This is just the arms. Often they go for face and neck.

Mumsnet mods- feel free to remove the image if you feel it is too graphic, but people need to be aware of the types of injures wrought by these dogs, to protect their children and themselves.

They are ''not'' like normal dogs. They don't feel pain in the same way a normal dog does, and can 'snap' out of nowhere, even if apparently 'trustworthy ' and known to the family.

I hope the image is ''covered'' as I marked it ''sensitive''.

And another attack by an XL here.

''so dopey and friendly '' til they are not- and savaging a child or someone's pet.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12630649/xl-bully-dog-attacks-girl-Salford-Quays-manchester.html

I’m so sorry if I’ve upset you, I don’t really talk about the attack but the public need to know what these dogs are capable of. DH was bitten very badly during the attack.

There’s a number of people who choose to ignore what these dogs are capable of. Yes both of us were booting it, I had steel toe cap yard boots on, it was literally hammered with a fence post, sorry for being crude but DH booted it’s balls over and over again and it never gave up. I was booting its ribs, DH lifted its back legs and it still hung on. DH literally lay on top of it to drown it. Again, I’m so very sorry if this upsets anyone. Theses dogs have no place in society. I’m just so grateful our DGC weren’t there that day.

😂

@BellaAndDave I'm appalled that it took that much force.

I'm not 'Upset' at what you had to do, I'm upset that it means that when one turns, what the hell can people do, unless they have a firearm?

{and plenty of rounds of ammo to go with it}

NOW I understand why the police sent armed response units to incidents with these dogs, both here and in USA.

People joke and smirk and giggle, they haven't a clue what these dogs can do

''Stubborn'' types are drawn to them though, so that is hardly a surprise.
Like the woman whose mother begged her not to get one, and the daughter went ahead...and was mauled to death by it.

You were lucky indeed that your Grandchildren weren't there that day.

These evil mutts go for horses, as well. there is something amiss with them, something that isn't wired right in their brain- to be so turned on by violence isn't a thing that naturally occurs in dogs.

These things have been so deeply inbred, and the UK ones especially so, that they are very unstable.

Why do we have to wait until the end of the year before they are banned? There are bullies here - walked off lead.

YANBU and I do see the difference between an in control dog (OP’s dog) which is legal and acceptable and an out of control dog which was approaching others.
That said, I understand why strangers are fearful of any dog. I put mine back on the lead around other humans and dogs. He’s tiny but I don’t know how they feel about him. I have him well trained but he’s an animal so a lead is most sensible. I mostly take him to fields where I never see another human or animal so he gets a proper run around. I would hate for anyone to feel afraid of my dog. I was absolutely terrified as a child, I refused to go to parks and other children’s houses for play dates. It was so limiting.

If a toddler could not beat your dog in a fight then it should be on lead and muzzled at all times.

If an adult couldn’t beat it in a fight it has no business being in society and should be in GRAVE.

I don't know if it was "dear old Stan" or not, or anything about him other than the credentials he was introduced with.

I do know that the other two people ( an American breeder who has exported "hundreds" of dogs and puppies to the UK) and a woman with an XL in the studio can't necessarily be trusted.

The breeder claimed that she breeds these dogs responsibly (if she's producing "hundreds" for export alone, then no, she is NOT breeding responsibly), and that none of her dogs has ever attacked anyone. I don't believe she knows what has happened to most of these, or where they are, or even if they are still with the people she sold them to, so she can't in all honesty, claim that. She said "It's not the dogs - it's the owners" (Usual mantra.). Well she may be right - but if she's bred as many as she claims I do not believe for one moment she has carefully checked all of the people who bought them. She couldn't. And she is making many £000's from them so she's bound to claim that they are lovely.

In the (fantasy scenario) event that she did check every prospective buyer, there is still no way to stop these animals falling into the wrong hands which means that the end result - a powerful, reactive, uncontrolled, dangerous dog - is the same.

The woman who owned the XL bully bitch she had in the studio obviously did nothing but praise her pet to the skies - she's hardly going to come in and say "Yea - she bites, but not very often and only if she doesn't like the look of someone." is she? I also noticed that the dog was wearing what appeared to be a shock collar. If it was, it speaks volumes in itself.

These are not dogs which have been bred for any purpose other than to look big and threatening, and to be "tough". They are reactive, unpredictable and powerful. Most are badly trained/ untrained*. They are dangerous.

There are plenty of other breeds to choose from. No-one should be putting the public at risk from these dogs, even if they are prepared to risk themselves.

*As are many dogs - the difference being that most breeds aren't as intrinsically dangerous.

Edit: spelling

Surprise surprise that the owner was a man who became aggressive towards a mother with two young children on her own

Absolutely pathetic idiots.
I would have been terrified and hard to keep my mouth under control.
It's owners like that, that is causing the end for this breed.
It would nts surprise me if that kind of owner if they could would like their snarling dog to enter a babies ward to prove how gentle and wondeful theirs dog is.

Op get something equipment for the next walk, k9 spray... Spray for dogs eyes.... Small pen knife if that's allowed... Anything that's allowed to help you should this dog turn

And I would have called non emergency police no

Beautifully put, as usual, @Emotionalsupportviper
These Pitbulls {which is what these XL Bullies actually are crosses of} are phenomenally reactive and dangerous.
The American woman who breeds them had them all in what looked like tall jail cells outdoors, with one large Pitbull in each cell.
She was also having her physical space invaded repeatedly.
She clearly would be dealing with the most easily controlled XL Pit for the interview, yet she repeatedly had to push it away from her face.

If the other woman who was praising her brute to the skies was wearing a shock collar- that does indeed tell you all you need to know- that it cannot be controlled by voice alone.

I agree there are many badly trained dogs around - but most if they cause a problem can be deflected with a well aimed kick or walking stick- these brutes cannot, as they are so ''Turned on'' by attacking.

The owners of the ones I've seen have been physically weak, and the dog is 100% the one in control, yet the owners gain a pleasure from seeing how frightened people are {justifiably} by these unstable dogs.

they are so ''Turned on'' by attacking

This is spot on @oakleaffy - they get a huge adrenaline rush from it. Adrenaline doesn't just provide energy and extra muscle power - it deadens pain. This means that they are, as you say, a breed which can't easily be pulled or beaten away from a victim. They perceive a kick/ punch/ etc to be an attack and it increases their aggression levels, and as very powerful dominant dogs they aren't intimidated by physical punishment. They are very well aware of their own strength and power.

Most dogs - even large, powerful dogs, grow up knowing that people are in charge ie are physically able to control them if necessarily. And most breeds - even guard breeds are bred to be trainable. Nobody wants a guard dog that is going to turn on the handler, so they are bred not just for an intimidating appearance but to be easy to train. These bullies aren't. It also seems than most owners that I've observed let the dogs get away with bad behaviour when they are puppies, and then are unable to stop it when they are older because the dog has got used to doing what it likes. and is too strong and heavy to stop.

They seem to have a strong prey drive - they like to chase and to kill things. In itself this isn't unusual - many dogs are bred selectively for these instincts, but there is a huge difference between a Plummer terrier killing a barnful of rats, or a greyhound chasing a "hare", and one of these horrible dogs attacking and killing other dogs, children and even adults.

If a dog like this isn't wearing a collar, (and far too many don't) there isn't even anything get hold of to pull it off if it attacks. The coats are slippery, short, smooth hair that is actually armour-like - you can't get a grip (even if you dared) and when an attack is in progress the dogs involved mover remarkably quickly.

TBH, even if I thought this was the best breed in the world I wouldn't want the responsibility of it: Too powerful, too unpredictable, too independent.

@Emotionalsupportviper So how can one protect one’s child or pet against one?
Completely agree about the ones I’ve seen being completely out of control
I grabbed one by it’s collar a few weeks ago to save my dog- I got dragged down a flight of steps and across rough grass but eventually it stopped Chasing
my adrenaline was up, I still need medical attention for torn ligaments from holding on.

It’s female owner seemed afraid of it , despite her being strongly built and far younger than me.

These dogs absolutely know their own power-
A good Police dog has an “ off” switch.

These don’t.

I’ve thought about carrying a knife. Highly
illegal I’m aware hence why I have not but I wouldn’t hesitate to use it on one.

One of these bully types used to roam around our local park (no collar, cropped ears). The owner, who seemed pleasant enough, if a bit of a tw@t was always with the dog, but let it run unleashed (had a slip leash). I was always very careful to keep mine away from it, as it was built like a brick outhouse, and was still only a puppy.

I took to carrying a glass bottle full of water* (a fancy one - triangular base) which was heavy but made me feel more secure - if push ever came to shove I would have slammed it down as hard as I could on the dog's head or its spine. Happily it didn't come to that as one day they just stopped coming. Whether they moved or what, I don't know.

*I had it in a small backpack along with a folding water bowl, which I carried over my arm. When I saw the dog I would get the bottle out and carry it until we were safely past. The dog did show a lot of interest in mine, but to be fair, some dogs are very interested in others, especially un-neutered male dogs which this one was. His body language was always very threatening though - very tense, a very stiff-legged walk as he approached other dogs. And he stared. Owner thought he was just being "friendly". I had the feeling he was mentally assessing his chances if he started a fight - dogs do "weigh-up" the opposition. They aren't stupid.

banning the breeding and sale of these dogs isn’t enough

IMO all of them currently alive in this country should be euthanised. There should be some sort of amnesty and then after that a minimum five year jail sentence for owning one more for breeding them.

seeing as the vast majority of people that seem to own them don’t give a shit about what these things are capable of or indeed give a hoot what the law says then it needs to be drastic or they will just carry on backyard breeding them selling them for cash and these attacks will keep happening.

Agree with you- the owners are generally totally hopeless at controlling them.

I don’t have faith in this government to follow through with effective legislation.
”Nala’s ninth litter”will continue to be advertised as something else
” American Bully’s” - as some are being advertised already.

An out of control dog crashed through the gate of a children’s playground ( no dogs)

There was a crocodile of toddlers from a nursery there-
The owners of these dogs just don’t give a shit.

I’m so glad more details of the ban have been released, I’m not sure every owner of one of these dogs will comply though.

Everyone needs to report all bullies and all out of control dogs using the report a dog link on the gov website. Only noise will make any difference.

I’m a longtime mumsnet lurker but have just created an account after reading this thread, especially the story of your Labrador, which broke my heart. I too am terrified of XL bullies.

For context, I’ve owned dogs for over 30 years and have rehabilitated many, some with aggression-based behavioural problems, so I’m not a stranger to difficult dogs nor easily intimidated by them. Also a life-long horse owner, so used to dealing with wilful buggers ten times my weight.

Nothing instils fear in me like XL bullies - their body language when they see other dogs, labelled as ‘excited’ or ‘super friendly’ by their clueless owners, is so clearly activated prey drive. You know how most dogs look when they chase squirrels - super alert, tails high and wagging, gaze fixating - that’s how XL bullies look at other dogs. They have a disregulated prey drive that is massively unpredictable.

I spend my time wondering what on Earth I can carry to keep my dogs safe (collies, one an old lady). An umbrella to open and startle it with? Those ‘bangers’ that you used to throw on the floor as a kid? A pen knife? Something else?

Why the hell should I be forced into being so fearful (and nothing serious has even happened to me or mine - I don’t know what I’d do if the worst had happened to me as it did to poor @BellaAndDave ) and weighing up the options of what to carry to save my or my dogs’ life on what should be peaceful, mental health-promoting walks? All because some ego-driven morons believe they have a ‘right’ to walk the streets with a 70kg inbred, mentally unstable meat-grinder?

The legislation doesn’t go far enough. It wouldn’t have saved the life of Ian Price or any of the others where the dogs were not being walked but instead escaped from a house or garden. In those cases, the outcome would have been exactly the same. There’s also the double fact that because of the brachycephalic (inbred, squashed) snout, muzzles are hard to both fit and keep on these dogs, plus dogs in highly agitated states are also more likely to shed their muzzle.

Superb post, Could't agree with you more.
These dogs are unstable, horrendously inbred and have a fuse that is so short as to be not there.
Absolutely agree with the 'disregulated prey drive'.

Regarding life saving self defence, in UK people are basically stuffed.
A firearm is the only guaranteed way, and even then, multiple rounds have been needed to get these XL's to release the bodies of human victims.

I have researched a lot as to self defence..if they are attacking us, noting can be done, but if attacking a child or someone else, or a dog, choking them out is the only way , using a noose pulled high behind the jowls - but this needs strength which some don't have.
In an incident I had, I think it was my bodyweight being dragged {I was holding onto the brute's collar basically bouncing around on it's mottled back} that stopped it breathing freely- my small dog mercifully escaped it's jaws.,{She was not caught by it} but she had it's saliva on her.

It's owner was hopeless.

People suggest on forums home made pepper spray or noxious sprays.

This man defends himself singlehandedly against three large Bull breeds {Pits}
He would very likely be dead had he not done what he did.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYStateOfMind/comments/rp9mi7/guy_knocks_out_pitbulls_for_trying_to_attack_him/?rdt=55181

Typical scum xl bully owner. Your children are not toys to provide entertainment to his dog. I dont gaf if his dog wanted to play and shouldn't be off lead if it had no recall. You did well not to boot it off her and report him to the police.