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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not have children due to state of the world?

54 replies

Appleast · 08/10/2023 17:26

I am 35 yo and married to a wonderful man. He’s always wanted children and, when we met, I said probably. The thing is, this country has become more and more hateful, with awful policies. National schadenfreude.
I grew up in a village near a prosperous city in the north. My parents had less qualifications than my husband and I but similar ‘level’ jobs. I had tutors, sports classes, foreign and UK holidays, a regular babysitter and was able to do 5 years at university for free. I grew up in a 5 bed house that was 3x my parents dual income. That same house would be 14x my husband and I’s dual income. We have a lovely 2 bed terrace in the city near my home village. My parents paid a huge deposit, independently we’d afford a studio. My parents have helped us and I’m extremely grateful but I’d like to think of a future where children aren’t dependent on their parents. My husband’s parents live 2 hours away and care a lot for his brother’s children.
Currently I’m a specialist nurse and work 40-55 hours a week. I live an ok life with some joy like a gym / yoga membership and a city break or beach holiday a year. I see first hand at work the brutality of the government’s policies but I earn enough with my overtime to shut it out on time off and enjoy my day to day life.
Ive done all the calculations and if I were to have a baby with 12 hours a week childcare from parents, nursery and the rest ourselves (me only doing 30 hours at work) we’d be borderline in poverty. There is no way we could give a child a good start in life and we’d have no escapism from the horrors of work through enjoyment. The sports clubs that were about when I was a child are now all shut to anyone but wealthy fee payers. The village I grew up in is for only the super wealthy and seems vacant of children. I’m my city the parks are housing estates. Streets are lined with litter and homeless. There’s no nightlife open or anywhere fun to go. If children try playing sport in a park people film them, put it on social media and complain. If children play by the river the police disperse them. I watch children have every part of their life controlled filmed and policed. I thought being a teen was anxiety inducing I can’t imagine it today!
None of my friends have had children. Not one woman I’m friends with from childhood or adulthood has a baby yet. I feel awful saying it but, looking round, only the really rough people I know are having (or have had) kids. Women I went to school with who have never had a job have 4 children and are struggling beyond belief. My colleagues with children are in masses of debt and depressed.
I couldn’t give a child the life that we had and I’d feel such guilt at relying heavily on my parents (that’s if they stay well enough).
A number of my friends have moved to Australia, and Canada at the hope of making a life there to have children. But I worry about global unrest / environmental future too.
Should I have a child to please my husband because he hopes / believes that the world will improve. After all, when we met at 28 I said I’d like to have children one day. He thinks we’ll work it out and his mum could help (she’s 2 hours away and unwell). By doing an extra day of work a week each
we save about £200 a month and have zero debt but I don’t think that’s sustainable to raise a child nowadays when everything costs so much.

OP posts:
Loubelle70 · 08/10/2023 17:31

i had only 1 child, i couldn't afford more, however.. the state of this country/the world i wouldn't bring a child into this mess if i had more money or none. My daughter is in her 30s..i wouldn't have children now.

CharlotteRumpling · 08/10/2023 17:32

No, don't bother having a child to please your husband.

Daffodilwoman · 08/10/2023 17:38

He thinks his ill mother who lives a 2 hour drive away could help out…… nice.
No don’t have a child with him.
Either he would have to reduce his hours and look after the child or just wait and see if you feel differently in a year or 2.
Also I agree with you in that the way things are going only those at the very top or bottom of society will be having children in the not too distant future.

fearfuloffluff · 08/10/2023 17:39

Well. This sentence jumped out at me: I live an ok life with some joy

You sound depressed and demoralised. Everything is an insuperable problem. I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of things to be depressed about and some places have intractable problems and decline etc.

But there's always some joy - walking in the country, cooking, good views or community groups or something. With kids you do see the world in a different way and get fascinated by snails and flowers etc in a way you didn't before.

If I was your husband I'd feel a bit hard done by to think you'd changed your mind on something so important, but ultimately you should only have children if you really want to because it takes over your life for several decades.

Moneywise - it can be hard to manage, but people do. You can get by on peanuts and would spend less on things you currently see as essential. And the most expensive bit pre-3 doesn't last that long. Plus promotions and career development happen.

It's a hard thing to decide about, and you're right to think about the financial side, but you do sound overly focused on the gloom. Would your thinking be different in a different place, or with a different job or income? Work out what the real blockers are.

There's never a perfect time or place to have kids, there are always risks and it's a gamble. I think you sound burned out and depressed, I'd address that before making a forever type decision on kids.

smilesup · 08/10/2023 17:41

I think you are not alone in thinking this. The looming environmental.disaster that is going to happen is going to bring untold misery. No one is doing anything about it despite us talking about since at least when I was in school I'm 1989. We've walked into open eyed, our politicians are doing nothing and most people think it isn't going to affect them. It is. I am worried about my poor teenage children's futures and what world they will live in. Very different times from when I had my youngest in 2010. It was quite an optimistic period!

Stompythedinosaur · 08/10/2023 17:42

You can choose not to have a child for any reason, as long as you are open with your husband so he can decide if it is a deal-breaker for him.

Though I struggle a bit with your calculations - I have dc as a staff nurse and the sole family earner not that long ago. Money was tight, but I wouldn't have said we lived in poverty. And joy in your life doesn't have to come with a cost.

Are you sure you aren't exaggerating the financial impact to justify the fact you don't want dc? You are allowed to just not want dc.

PerspiringElizabeth · 08/10/2023 17:44

I live an ok life with some joy

That is so sad. I’m sorry OP. It would be very selfless of you not to have kids really. I wouldn’t, given what you have written. I hope you alter your circumstances to boost the joy.

IslaWinds · 08/10/2023 17:44

This isn’t an AIBU.
You don’t need a good reason to not want children. The main thing is you need to tell your DH as soon as you can now you know you definitely don’t want any. He deserves to not be strung along and to have a chance of being a father with another partner.

Appleast · 08/10/2023 17:45

Thank you that’s a really balanced response.
I guess by ‘ok’ I meant - I live a comfortable life with the odd treats but not a life of luxury. Ie I get the odd pedicure in summer but we can’t afford to shop at M&S. I hope that makes sense. Sometimes I wonder if I’m depressed or just overly realistic!
I appreciate your response; there’s certainly joy to be found through a child’s eyes. I do a lot of running and hiking, which is indeed free and I’ve never thought of this as an activity to do as a parent but I suppose it can be.
I do feel guilt towards my husband. If I was single or I found out I was infertile I wouldn’t even question whether to have children but because of him I do.

OP posts:
WhateverMate · 08/10/2023 17:46

This exact thread comes up every few weeks.

You can choose not to have kids for any reason you want.

Gymmum82 · 08/10/2023 17:47

This is not the reality for me or any of my friends. There’s far more facilities for children locally.
I don’t earn a good wage and my husbands is average. We give our kids a great life. Foreign holidays, days out etc. They have a much better life than I did growing up

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 08/10/2023 17:48

fearfuloffluff · 08/10/2023 17:39

Well. This sentence jumped out at me: I live an ok life with some joy

You sound depressed and demoralised. Everything is an insuperable problem. I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of things to be depressed about and some places have intractable problems and decline etc.

But there's always some joy - walking in the country, cooking, good views or community groups or something. With kids you do see the world in a different way and get fascinated by snails and flowers etc in a way you didn't before.

If I was your husband I'd feel a bit hard done by to think you'd changed your mind on something so important, but ultimately you should only have children if you really want to because it takes over your life for several decades.

Moneywise - it can be hard to manage, but people do. You can get by on peanuts and would spend less on things you currently see as essential. And the most expensive bit pre-3 doesn't last that long. Plus promotions and career development happen.

It's a hard thing to decide about, and you're right to think about the financial side, but you do sound overly focused on the gloom. Would your thinking be different in a different place, or with a different job or income? Work out what the real blockers are.

There's never a perfect time or place to have kids, there are always risks and it's a gamble. I think you sound burned out and depressed, I'd address that before making a forever type decision on kids.

All of this.

When people talk about not wanting to have children because of the state of the world I can’t help thinking of the people who said this just after the first nuclear bombs were dropped in 1945. It would have looked like an understandable thing to say at the time- and yet, in the west, the children that were born then were arguably one of the most fortunate generations ever.

Appleast · 08/10/2023 17:49

That’s a good point and gives hope

OP posts:
PunjabiGirl · 08/10/2023 17:49

I don't want to have children, and neither do a couple of my friendship group. Don't worry about the reason, do what feels right for you.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 08/10/2023 17:51

Course you don't have to have children but tell your husband ASAP so he can decide if he wants to stay or not.

Riva5784 · 08/10/2023 17:53

You are NBU to not want children. It's a perfectly reasonable and normal choice to make. As above, you don't need a reason not to have children.

You are BU to attribute your choice to the state of the world or what people you went to school with did or what you said to your husband umpteen years ago.

quietnightmare · 08/10/2023 17:54

If you

CharlotteRumpling · 08/10/2023 17:54

There's a child free board on here.

quietnightmare · 08/10/2023 17:54

If you don't want a child or children. Tell him now so he can find someone who does

Halfemptyhalfling · 08/10/2023 17:55

You need to think about
Would you like to be a mum or not?
If labour get in things might improve for children.
If no are you sure enough that is more important than your relationship and you would be ok if your DP left to find someone who would like children ( and not mind being poor)

RudsyFarmer · 08/10/2023 17:55

You e painted such a bleak picture in your position no I wouldn’t have children.

Appleast · 08/10/2023 18:04

Thank you. I think it’s an issue we sort of skirt over and we need to be clear about what we want and for each other. He’d make an amazing father. When I bring it up for discussion he sees everything as hopeful whereas I’m pessimistic. He sees Labour getting in and is turning in to Sweden overnight.

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 08/10/2023 18:07

I don't live in the uk and haven't been back in a long time, but your description makes it sound like a dystopian hellhole. You could either move either to a better part of the uk or of the world or do something to make it a better place.

Squirrelthoughts · 08/10/2023 18:09

Sounds like you want kids but are worried about affording them. I think if everyone thought about it like that they never would.
We are TTC a first and tbh looking at finances we’ll be stretched to do one mat leave never mind two, but you cut your cloth and it depends what your priorities are. There’s a fair chance we’ll stick at one with finances being the prevailing reason. I do totally see your point, though, and think lots of people will think this way too in future years

Slowlylosingmymind101 · 08/10/2023 18:10

When has the world ever not been a mess somewhere...?

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