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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should I complain about this?

162 replies

hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 12:25

I know this has already been done recently but my year 7 ds came home from school with a letter yesterday regarding toilet use. From this week, only children with a pre approved toilet pass will be able to leave lessons to go to the toilet. And in order to get one of these parents will need to provide medical evidence of a long term health issue.

They have generously said that children suffering from temporary issues such as infections or periods (?!?!) can get a pass but these will also need to be approved.

I feel outraged to be honest. Of course there will be kids who take the piss (no pun intended) but there are a hell of a lot of shy, genuine children who are probably going to feel really uncomfortable about this blanket ban on toilet use. What if someone has an accident in class? Can you imagine the shame? Surely teachers are able to quite quickly determine the kids who are trying to skive and those who are genuine? Is it worth complaining about this?

OP posts:
Original poster
hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 12:58

LakeTiticaca · 06/10/2023 12:47

A year 7 child should be capable of using a toilet at break/lunch and not have to disruption lessons. They are not 5 year olds.

Anyone of any age can be susceptible to a sudden onset of diarrhoea or vomiting or a sudden period that they might not fancy discussing with their teacher in front of the class.

Imagine having to explain yourself. In that time an accident could occur and a self conscious teen is hardly likely to live that down for a very long time.

It's necessary to police it so kids don't use it as an excuse to skip class. It's not ok to say a blanket no to all kids. Imagine if they tried enforcing something like this in a workplace.

OP posts:
Hercisback · 06/10/2023 13:02

In reality it isn't a blanket no though. It's a 99% no with a bit of discretion.

But school won't openly say that. This will cut most of the time wasters.

I can think of two times I've needed to leave a class for the toilet over a 15 year career. Hardly a regular occurrence for a bathroom.

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 13:03

Some work places do have policies like this.... See being a teacher!

Or surgeon.

Some prison staff. Amazon warehouse workers.
I'm sure there's more.

Testina · 06/10/2023 13:42

“It's necessary to police it so kids don't use it as an excuse to skip class. It's not ok to say a blanket no to all kids”

But it’s not a blanket no. You said in your OP that short term reasons can also get approved for a pass.

Now might say, “how does Sophie know she needs the loo until her period comes 3 days early and she gets a suspicious wet feeling in Geography?”

If Sophie hasn’t spent the last 6 months whining to go to the loo (to vape, or to be destructive) every time her teachers gets stuck into the middle course of rivers, she’ll be allowed to go.

Hankunamatata · 06/10/2023 13:49

I never understood this until my dc were in school. It's a huge problem kids going to the toilet especially if they disappear for 20mins plus. Then you have to get cover and try and find them. Then there's the kids who do it every lesson or use it as an excuse to be late for every lesson

fetchacloth · 06/10/2023 14:08

Eileen101 · 06/10/2023 12:30

I can't imagine many shy girls wanting to have to get a pass for their period!

Nor me. That's barbaric 😡

Original poster
hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 14:41

Hankunamatata · 06/10/2023 13:49

I never understood this until my dc were in school. It's a huge problem kids going to the toilet especially if they disappear for 20mins plus. Then you have to get cover and try and find them. Then there's the kids who do it every lesson or use it as an excuse to be late for every lesson

So surely the answer is to penalise those kids. Not make every other child have a medical pass so they can go to the toilet.

OP posts:
Hercisback · 06/10/2023 14:54

How can you penalise them though?
If the rule is they can go to the toilet, then their argument is that they're not doing anything wrong.
Wheras you can stick to a policy of no toilet and use discretion as needed. Bit like most other school rules.

lilsupersparks · 06/10/2023 14:55

I work in a school with a similar rule. My kids attend there. I tell my kids that if they are desperate/feel sick/might have an accident then they are to just leave.

my kids are pretty stoic and sensible. I have taught them not to say ‘Miss, I feel a bit sick’ which can be mis interpreted but to say in a panicky voice ‘Miss! I’m going to be sick!!’ and leave. When my daughter reaches an age when she has periods I will teach her a similar phrase and tell her to walk out.

as a teacher I have to apply the policy. I say ‘you know that you are not allowed to use the toilet during class time - I will have to… (insert consequence here)’ but I would never stand in a student’s way. Then it gets recorded and if it is the same kids time and time again we can prove it.

It’s sad that this has to be done. But we literally do not have staff numbers to supervise corridors and toilets during lesson time. Kids arrange times to meet with their mates. They bully and harass others. Yes, they can be disciplined for this, but by the time they are disciplined their actions have already happened.

i also have to wait for break and lunch (well apart from the days I am on duty when I can be working from 8.30-1.30 with no break at all). Yes, if I thought I would have an accident I would have to leave the classroom and notify the teacher ne t door and leave the door open.. that hasn’t happened to me in 20 years but it might. My friend who suffered from hyperemesis did have to do this a few times.

Original poster
hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 15:10

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 14:54

How can you penalise them though?
If the rule is they can go to the toilet, then their argument is that they're not doing anything wrong.
Wheras you can stick to a policy of no toilet and use discretion as needed. Bit like most other school rules.

If it's the same people every time then tell them no or make them present a medical pass. Don't make it an issue for all the kids. It's unfair.

OP posts:
Hercisback · 06/10/2023 15:16

As a class teacher, if the policy is they can go, I can't stop them.

It's not unfair. The overwhelming majority of the population don't need toilet access more than every 2 hours.

This gives teachers more backing to say no, and allows for discretion when required.

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 15:17

If you get 3-4 kids a lesson asking, multiply that by the 40 - 50 classes on at the same time and suddenly there's a lot of people with a 'legitimate' reason to be walking around school.
Most of them don't need the toilet.

CatamaranViper · 06/10/2023 15:47

They tried this at my school back when I was a teen, but I went to an all girls school so we had absolutely no problem discussing periods in the classroom in front of teachers or chucking sanpro at people when they needed some. Very hard for a teacher to say no when a teenage girl said she was on her period.

On the other hand, teenagers should be able to use the toilet at breaks and lunch times. Lets face it, very few people have the ability to flee to the toilet at any given time. I worked in a hotel and if I was on the front desk I couldn't leave whenever I fancied, I'd have to wait for cover. Even now, if I'm in a meeting or on a client call, I can't just get up and go. It's a good skill to learn.

Noodledoodledoo · 06/10/2023 15:59

hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 12:58

Anyone of any age can be susceptible to a sudden onset of diarrhoea or vomiting or a sudden period that they might not fancy discussing with their teacher in front of the class.

Imagine having to explain yourself. In that time an accident could occur and a self conscious teen is hardly likely to live that down for a very long time.

It's necessary to police it so kids don't use it as an excuse to skip class. It's not ok to say a blanket no to all kids. Imagine if they tried enforcing something like this in a workplace.

Show quote history

I'm not allowed to go to the loo when I like, started work at 845 on Thursday finished at 130 - I am a teacher. I had break duty and 4 lessons and registration. No chance to go between lessons. It's pretty much like this most days, not always break duty.

Discretion is used, students will push every boundary they can, plan to meet up to vape. I am in a nice school, 15 vapes were found hidden in the roof tiles of the toilets, all toilets are now being fitted with vape alarms. This is happening during lesson time.

Damage to toilets is ridiculous, students need to prioritise, our toilet block is empty for the whole of break, now its open plan - used to be a favourite hang out which scared younger kids off.

Most teachers I know if someone says they are feeling sick, we would sort them going to first aid, and I always say - if you think you are going to be sick just go!

MumofSpud · 06/10/2023 16:05

My school has this 'no toilet during lessons rule' (except those with medical passes and if a girl says she's on her period)

The longest between breaks is 2 lessons but I drum it into any new Year 7s I have that
1 they should also use the lesson changeover time if need be
2 they should go at break even if they don't need to go and their friends aren't going

The 'busiest' time that students ask to go is at the start of the last lesson straight after lunch Confused

They are also surprised when I say I am not allowed to go in lessons either!

TravellingT · 06/10/2023 16:38

Ableism is rife, and young people dealing with periods are always treated badly. Apparently young people can all just get on with it- periods, disabilities, health issues. No one thinks to be a bit more gentle or supportive because kids are orrible!

Original poster
hollywally54 · 06/10/2023 16:40

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 15:16

As a class teacher, if the policy is they can go, I can't stop them.

It's not unfair. The overwhelming majority of the population don't need toilet access more than every 2 hours.

This gives teachers more backing to say no, and allows for discretion when required.

Do you have any statistics to back up your 'overwhelming majority' comment? Just because people don't talk about their bowel and bladder issues doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe not as prevalent in young people granted, but I object to anyone in any social setting (be it school, work or other) being denied access to a toilet if they need it.

Just think about the alternative ffs.

OP posts:
TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon · 06/10/2023 16:40

TravellingT · 06/10/2023 16:38

Ableism is rife, and young people dealing with periods are always treated badly. Apparently young people can all just get on with it- periods, disabilities, health issues. No one thinks to be a bit more gentle or supportive because kids are orrible!

Said nobody on this thread, or in any school. Ever.

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 16:42

Teachers are bloody supportive! Discretion is used.

The amount of crap people are writing here is ridiculous.

If you had to deal with the issues a lack of toilet policy led to, you'd be begging for one.

I don't want kids being assaulted, vaping, coerced into who knows what. I'd rather they were in the classroom.

Hercisback · 06/10/2023 16:43

The alternative is a child soiling themselves or leaking.

Neither have happened in my classroom, because discretion is used!

WereYouListeningToTheDudesStory · 06/10/2023 16:44

I don't agree with the idea of this. I think if anything, it's going to put children off staying hydrated in case they need to embarrass themselves in order to use the loo.

Zanatdy · 06/10/2023 16:45

Standard in our secondary. DD has one for bad periods

tsmainsqueeze · 06/10/2023 16:59

My year 11 child's school have just done a u turn on the same rules , they did it due to parents objections.
I know all about the things kids can get up to when they go to the toilet during lessons but i feel very strongly that it is a human right to use the toilet when you need it , also without having to explain yourself.
I would email your objection ,you certainly won't be the only one and make it crystal clear to the school and your child that should they need the toilet and can't wait then they should politely tell the teacher that they are going to the toilet and if there is fall out you will then handle it.
All 3 of my children have been told the same thing, i don't really care if this attitude bothers any teachers or causes a slight disruption, my kids are respectful and haven't been trouble makers at school but i will not have anyone tell them that they cannot use a toilet when they need to.

Justchattingaboutthings · 06/10/2023 17:02

I wet myself in a lesson in Year 7. I had been allowed out to go to the toilet, but when I got there, a group of girls were smoking in the toilet and timid 11-year-old me was too scared to go in.

So sometimes the consequences of access to toilets can be the same as the consequences of lack of access...

Meeting · 06/10/2023 17:04

When my children are old enough they'll be told that they are not prisoners at school and that if they have an emergency situation then they can do what they need to, whether it breaks the rules or not.

If that means getting up and going to the toilet (because it's unavoidable not just because they got the urge) then that's what they can do and I will fully support them.