A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

No

Because the only reason people are voting Tory is due to trans rights. That in itself is transphobic.

If you’re so worried about women’s rights, not just the ones in relation to trans women then you’d never even consider voting Tory.

Trans is a very small percentage of the actual issues women face on a daily basis, and the Tories aren’t going to do a thing about it. Just make it worse and worse. But at least you can call a trans woman a man right!

Our mortgages are through the roof. Our health service is on its knees and our schools are crumbling.
But for some reason the Tories think screaming about trans people, small boats, car speed limits and denying any responsibility despite being in power for 13 years will somehow win them an election.

They are absolutely fucking deluded. But it most be hard for them to really gauge the mood of the nation from their millionaire estates.

LOL...Sunak and his crew knows exactly what they're doing. The Christians and other religious groups are eating it up. He's got their votes.

No it’s not enough. He hasn’t addressed the fundamentals at all - it’s another slimey attempt to look like they have answered a question when they haven’t.

The Conservatives lack values and principles. Their ideology is broken and unsuitable for modern Britain, for the modern world, for our younger generations. There are plenty of young people who are gender critical who might respect a party that tackled these issues head on. That party is not the Conservatives.

Il preface by saying I agree trans women should not be in female prisons/compete in women’s sport etc but there are ways to discuss this without denying the existence of trans women. To add I also recognise the rights trans women have to live as themselves without persecution, I think a lot of trans women actually agree other provisions should be made it’s only the very few nutters that believe they are superior to biological women that get heard because they shout the loudest which then gets spun into a media campaign to stir up emotions.

The hateful rhetoric the Tory party are sprouting for votes is disgusting, if people believe 0.5% of the population is a threat to women’s rights more than the Tory party themselves they need to give their heads a wobble and come off the internet for a while. Trans people are HUMAN the same as us women are and deserve to live in peace, we need to remember that sometimes while the media are trying to pit two marginalised communities against each other.

I genuinely don't feel I can vote for any of the available options so, for the first time ever, I probably won't vote at all. I hate that that's where we are but I would have to hold my nose whoever I chose and my conscience would trouble me either way so abstention seems my only option. That said it is Labour's stance on the 'what is a woman' question which stops me voting for them, I would support them if they did a u-turn on this issue. I can't vote Tory irrespective of this issue though, 13 years of this shit is enough for anyone.

This......I agree, it seems to be diminishing slightly. I certainly hope so.
And no, I couldn't vote Tory, not in a thousand years.

Let's say this issue was about something else.

Suppose Labour was going to solve every current issue under the sun, but was also going to remove the right to vote from women.

How would people balance it? Vote Tory to keep the right to vote, even though they were going to mess up education or health? Or vote Labour, give away one of the fundamental rights of women, but know that under the benevolent patriarchal system we'd all be looked after.

Everyone balances up different issues and weighs them differently. That is our right in a democratic society. Calling people names does no good.

How people weigh keeping women's single sex rights against all the other issues is up to them. But it is not 'transphobic' to want them protected.

When you consider it in light of his previous statements he has made it is not quite as clear.

On the radio, as per your article he declared that a woman is an 'adult female'. When he has defined woman in the past he included people who had transitioned. He has said "trans women are women, and that is not just my view - that is actually the law".

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12341781/Keir-Starmer-finally-accepts-woman-adult-female-Labour-leader-confirms-party-U-turn-gender-self-identification-admits-policy-not-right-way-forward.html

Well under that 'law' those male people can describe themselves as 'female' on their documents etc. So, if Starmer, a lawyer, says 'a woman is an adult female', I remain sceptical about what he means. I am suspicious enough because it has not been clarified by him and he has used ambiguous wording to this effect before. Speaking of 'safe spaces' being protected, but never stating they were single sex, and it turned out that at those times, the shadow ministry were still making statements that allowed males with GRC or the intention of getting one to use those spaces.

I am all for Starmer coming out and being very clear and would celebrate that.

I mean, what a situation where we have doubts because of the language being used. But that language was carefully curated by a team who could see what was happening in the majority of the population, but who need to keep other factions on side.

It sounded great. However, from talking to women in my local Labour Party trying to get motions to get that would provide that clarity tabled is being rejected still. The women's labour declaration were still rejected from having a table at conference and I am very keen to see just how many women who support single sex spaces are given a voice.

I hope that I have explained it well enough. I am tired so I expect that I won't have.

@purplesky18 I don't think anyone 'denies the existence of transpeople'.

You're ridiculous wanting to vote for them. I won't be voting at all. They're all the same.

I mean last election they were going to help the poverty areas in the north - there are more people in poverty than ever before .. so no I don’t buy any bullshit out there mouths

FPTP doesn't mean they win though, it's all a big con, along with boundary changes to keep them in power. Not fiddling the count, just other things.

Nah this is pure show to get headlines.

If they actually actually cared about women, where is the funding for DV services? Why has the childcare funding conversation stalled?

There are more reports of male politicians assaulting women than trans women attacking women.

All of the changes that have happened with respect to gender-neutral spaces happened under THEIR GOVERNMENT.

I can’t vote for either at the moment but I’m glad he’s said it and I hope it prompts others to speak up.

Vote Rish!, get Nige ?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-tory-party-leader-b2425184.html

i saw a tiktok of a trans man who had accidentally fallen pregnant and wanted to be treated as a man throughout his pregnancy.
I mean I get that completely but "getting pregnant accidentally" means he was having hetorosexual sex so ... it all baffles me?

Be who you want to be, sleep with whoever and however you want, but if you have a functioning penis I am not comfortable with sharing changing space.

A huge red flag for me was the dehumanising language used by Suella Braverman in her conference speech. No, I definitely won’t be voting Conservative regardless of what Sunak said. Sunak’s words were empty, Braverman’s words were frightening.

Of course they haven't.

Tories would prefer for women to stay at home and do the housework and cooking.

There is no way they want to protect women or women's rights, or women's need for safe, single-sex spaces.

And as far as your original question goes - no, I would rather stick pins into my eyes than vote Tory.

Very reminiscent of Thatchers speech against gay people.

I am fine to have discussions around women-only spaces and the issues with self ID, but I am not here for demonising people. The Tories are nothing but Daily Mail hate fodder.

I wonder what happens if Labour get in and people suddenly realise nothing really changes, thousands of council houses don't appear and we're all in more or less the same situation as we were. It's easy to talk a good game when you're not actually responsible for steering the ship.

I am a socialist, but the Socialist Party has come out for the alphabet and explicitly against WPUK. No-one to vote for at all now.

..................but there are ways to discuss this without denying the existence of trans women

Eh? Who is denying that transwomen exist?

Odd comment.