A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

@bluelavender - yes, I guess each of us should try to figure out who we think is the least bad option. That may depend a lot on individual candidate rather than just party lines of course.

No.

No
A tory is a tory.

Can you explain why you support people 'being able to change sex'?

Totally agree.
We all owe it to ourselves, other people, and those who have died so we can go and vote and participate in our democracy.
Its a stupid thing to do to not vote or spoil your ballot. People are literally prepared to risk death to be part of our democracy. The least you can do is choose an option you think is the least bad and vote.

I imagine a large percentage of LGBTQ+ activists will vote based on this single issue from the other side of the debate.

Are they in the wrong too or is it only women who are not allowed to do that?

Choosing to vote LD, Green or SNP purely because they are anti women is hardly some great moral stance but a lot will do just that. Would you also tell them they are wrong for prioritising their core activist beliefs?

I don't think the Tories are necessarily going to fix this mess at all but it seems there's a lot of hypocrisy on the subject of who should be allowed to vote based on their perceived interests.

This. I don’t know who I will vote for or if I will spoil my ballot. They’re all shit. I won’t vote for anyone who pretends men can become women but I also can’t vote Tory in good conscience.

@Helleofabore if you want an honest answer I truly believe in my experience anyway that many trans women are painfully insecure due to the years of internal hate they’ve had towards themselves, they are not loud and don’t wish to get so directly involved with wider debates that could open them up to even more hate from the few in the community that hold extreme views. Most just want to get on with their lives.

Do I agree with this stance no I do not but do I truly blame them for sticking their head in the sand probably not either. It’s such a difficult topic and a fine line to cross. I just try to present the view point that trans people as a whole really do not wish to erase women’s rights as much as most women do not wish to erase trans rights. We need to truly open a dialogue with each community and just come up with something better.

The Sky news poll indicates that the speech fell flat with the wider electorate. His "a woman is a woman" soundbite got no coverage at all in the news phone ins I heard yesterday.

Outside Mumsnet and the single issue voters here I doubt if it will be prioritised by many voters at the ballot box.

I always want an honest answer. I never ask where I don’t want an honest answer.

I recollect you saying this before I believe.

I understand. However, there must be a way for them to get their message out to these groups who are supposedly working for them. Even if it means membership to an alternative lobby group.

For instance, would they write into consultations? I find it very hard to reconcile that they would simply leave women to be abused for campaigning for our needs when they agree with those needs being met and the activists doing the abuse are doing so effectively in your friend’s names.

As I say, I do understand how hard it is for them and how they could be treated. It is all such as mess.

We need to truly open a dialogue with each community and just come up with something better.

Yes. And I believe it needs to be cross party led. Otherwise it will never get the support it needs and may become a ball thrown between intraparty factions and political parties alike.

Many people who are not single issue voters still care a great deal about women's rights and the harms to children and young people done by gender ideology, it remains a serious issue.

And you have a comprehension problem (amongst others).

None of that happened on day one.

What people view on the electorate depends on what you’re looking at too

Eg listening to various programmes or speaking to people it may represent a Brexit loss. But in the end it won

ilovesooty
The Sky news poll indicates that the speech fell flat with the wider electorate. His "a woman is a woman" soundbite got no coverage at all in the news phone ins I heard yesterday

Is that because Sky's Kay Burley wrongly suggested that Rishi Sunak had broken the law with regards to the Equalities Act?

Blimey. I don’t bother with Sky news but that’s bad. Glad I don’t waste time on it

Yes that’s exactly what I said - women shouldn’t be allowed to vote 😂

Your reading comprehension is lacking if that’s what you’ve garnered from my opinion.

But they don't all pretend that. Starmer has said directly the contrary.

This is exactly my position. I'm hoping for an independent candidate strong on local issues on my ballot paper.

But I'd rather Labour or the Lib Dems just woke the fuck up and declared that respect for trans people does not come at the expense of women's sex-based rights. Why is this so hard?

I mean imagine thinking that saying that there are only 2 sexes could be considered contrary to the Equality Act by a flipping news reader.

That's absolutely astounding.

Humans can't change sex.

The one thing that every trans woman has in common and that they don't share with women is that they are male.

Society has historically recognised that women need safeguarding in certain circumstances from all males, this is not because all males pose a safety risk but it is in recognition of the fact that some males harm women. This should include trans women, otherwise we are saying that some males should have special rules, why? Especially now when there is a raft of evidence of actually harm to women done by allowing that group of males to enter our spaces. What I am not saying here is that all trans women harm women, they don't. But a proportion of them do and have.

What is/ or should be contrary to the Equality Act is removing women's rights and protected character of SEX in favour of gender.

Otherwise what we are saying is that women are not as important as males.

That's hideous.

Cumulatively that still leaves them way behind the Tories. The sheer level of blatant favouring of Conservative party donors and friends, to say nothing of the daily lies and the criminal convictions, is absolutely eye-watering.

None of this nonsense persuades me to change my view. Sunak's been caught out lying yet again over HS2. Why would I believe him on this? If he means it, why has he done nothing about it over the last year?

Yeh and weirdly enough after all his previous TWAW rhetoric, I don’t believe he is being honest with us.

I think it's yours that is lacking.

The phrase I used was 'who should be allowed to vote based on their perceived interests'.

This is not the same as me accusing you of saying women shouldn't vote.

It was a comment on whether single issue votes are only acceptable on one side of the debate.

Orwellian at this point. With plenty of transphobic and bigot abuse at women thrown in for good measure

A lot of people are discussing (work/ friends) and are pleased, relieved that a leader in a political part has finally said this.

Not one that I think most of the electorate are likely to prioritise above other issues.