To give up breastfeeding 3 week old?

[Octosaurus]

Every time I breastfeed my 3 week old he spend the next few hours crying, spitting up and wriggling in pain.

On days where I exclusively breastfeed he also has had bad diarrhoea (12 poos a day vs his normal 5/6) and a red face and body.

When he has formula (when i was sick in hospital and when my supply had been too low for his appetite) he is much more content. He drinks, he can be burped nicely, no vomiting or spitting up and no diarrhoea or red blotchy skin.

I am so upset because I wanted to breastfeed and I feel like I can do it, I have a good latch and good supply now!

The doctor said there's no way he can be allergic to breast milk end of. I am coeliac and don't eat wheat and I gave up milk in case there was a dairy allergy.

I am seriously thinking I should switch to formula but I don't want to make him miss out on the benefits of BF and I'm afraid I will be judged.

Anyone been through similar? Or got ANY advice?

Gave

Hi there, I am a registred NHS midwife with an interested in infant feeding. I used to volunteer with the infant feeding team for 2.5 years every Friday for 3 hours. We would see babies up to 2 months old, usually at 2-3 weeks of age. Firstly, I would like to reassure you there is no right or wrong way of going in your situation. I am however worried you might regret your decision if your stop breastfeeding now. 3 weeks is a notoriously tricky age. Most babies are quite sleepy for the first couple of weeks, then they suddenly wake up and are very demanding. This is normal baby behaviour. Additonally, reading from your post, I would try to make your diet as bland as possible at this stage. Avoid beans, cabbiage, spices, coffee. Avoid any foods you didn't eat in pregnancy. An occasional glass of wine is OK. Try to get as much rest as possible during the day. Try to breastfeed at least once between midnight and 6 am as this is when milk hormones are at the highest. Do bare mininum of housework, focus on yourself and your gorgeous baby. The benefits of breasfeeding over formula feeding are huge. I am really surprised someone insinuated you shouldn't trust NHS. We are not out to make money by forcing women to breastfeed! Breastfeeding reduces (not eliminates) the risk of your child developing asthma, type 1 and type 2 diabetes, obesity in later life, all sorts of infections, certain childhood cancers etc. It also reduces your risk of developing breast cancer, ovarian cancer and osteoporosis in later life. The benefits are dose dependent - i.e. a bit of breastfeeding is better than none. (See NHS, UNICEF, Lancet magazine on breastfeeding). With so many benefits why it not everyone doing it? Because it's so difficult in the early weeks, as you are discovering now! From a personal experience, the first 10 weeks were the hardest (I exclusively breastfed). Then all of a sudden my babies started taking their feeds in 20 minutes rather tna 1 hour at a time. Unlike most of my friends, I didn't need to take formula and flask of hot water when going out. I didn't need to sterilise anything when I got home. This has been my journey. Yours will be your own. I always say to new mums it's not worth getting a postnatal depression over breastfeeding. I would also say every drop of breastmilk counts. On a practical side, if you start giving lots of bottles now, your milk supply will probably start drying up. Babies can put on quite a convincing show when they are feeding at the breast. However, mix fed babies might not suckle as hard as they should - bottles are much easier to drink from. Reading from your post, I am not convinced you are ready to give up breastfeeding yet. Why not persereve for a bit longer and try to find a local breastfeeding support group? I hope it helps

Are you on any medications for your coeliac/any other health issues?

Agree with @MariaVT65 especially this part:

'The NHS as a whole has a massive agenda to breastfeed, in a way that causes harm to people.'

I'm FF DD as my milk didn't come in, absolutely ZERO help from HCP's around FF bar a booklet which didn't have the info I was looking for all they keep repeating is 'feed on demand, feed on demand' when I ask questions.

The infant feeding team can't support me as not BF. Total head melt 🤯

They weren't interested in helping us with tongue tie either and had to seek help privately as I wasn't BF.

Absolutely disgusted and has caused us me harm.

Fortunately I am getting support from other sources to work through this and many other things that surround my pregnancy.

There are ladies in my NCT chat that are making BF a hill they die on as that was the only method discussed at the course with the facilitator stating they couldn't talk about FF or combi feeding as it was against NCT rules 🤨

Fed is best OP regardless of method!

Poos are more firm and less frequent in formula fed babies, are you sure it’s diarrhoea?

Stop - hands down best thing I did was going 100% formula.

You need to see a lactation consultant. Contact your midwives and get some decent advice

Keep at it until 6 weeks, then give up if you want to?

This was what I decided to do....and somewhere around 5 weeks it just suddenly all got so very much easier. I ended up feeding all mine to 1 year (and my most determined, to 2.5 years!)

The errors I made with my first were based on my own mum (who FF) telling me to feed every 4 hours. My LO was starving hungry! Once I offered the breast every time he cried (having checked he wasn't messy) he settled into a 1.5 hourly feed pattern during the day. All my 4 children did the same.

The best breast feeding advice I got bar none was from kellymom.com.

Breast fed babies do tend to pass copious loose nappies, in yellow to pale brown, and they can grunt and twist a lot while pooping. It's not diarrhea.

@pregnancyrollercoaster it’s not the fact that the NHS are pro bf that is the problem, it’s the fact that support is patchy to non-existent.

It’s great that the NHS is pro bf, but they need to follow through to actually help people do it. Both my babies were tongue tied and got no help from the NHS with either one, and I was ebf. My nipples were raw and bleeding with DC1 and my midwife just said he had a good strong suck!

OP - breastmilk is much gentler on a newborn’s tummy than formula and it is much easier for them to digest, so bf babies poo a lot more frequently than ff babies, and bf poo tends to be runny whereas ff poo is more solid.

Breastfeeds also take a lot longer than bottle feeds as the babies have to work harder for the milk, and the drinking action is different. I don’t think it’s certain at this point that there is a problem, but it’s definitely worth you speaking to someone who is properly informed about bf before making any irreversible decisions.

This is very encouraging. Before the 5 week mark of getting better what was your baby like? Spitting up/ vomiting a lot and crying and wriggling?

He cried - a lot - was pretty unsettled. But I would be saying to DH 'he can't be hungry, I fed him 2 hours ago' (he was!). My nipples bled. It was agony when he latched on. Somehow - once I offered the breast every time he cried when he was 3 weeks old and after - it stopped hurting, he stopped being inconsolable....we just learned how to feed.

Wrt poops, He grunted, went red in the face, squirmed, farted a LOT, bore down while going purple, and then pooped such huge poops they would go up his back and down to his socks. My friend with the bottle fed baby did a small playdoh-like lump every other day. My boy pooped up his back multiple times a day! That settled a bit but it's completely normal for EBF babies.

Of my 4 kids,
One never spilled a drop (he was 19 lb at 12 weeks on pure breast milk!)
One vomited huge quantities regularly (she was born at 36 weeks and I just feel like her system wasn't quite ready).
The other two were ordinary spitty up babies. I had a white stripe down my shoulder a lot that first year!

Hi Tired, very interesting in your pov and experience!

My diet is extremely plain and pretty healthy (I get mocked by DH for the "lack of flavour". I don't eat garlic and onions frequently at all it really is just meat and veg and water and decaf tea.

I just notice a massive different in the baby when I breastfeed versus formula. The spitting up seems really painful for him, often it occurs for hours afterwards and is curdled so it clearly is sitting in his stomach going nowhere. 12 poos a day can't be normal frequency can it? It's more mucusy too.

I don't want to give up breastfeeding but I know something is wrong and it's none of the usual stuff. It seems obscure?

yes it definitely sounds like a dairy issue when the child is fine on a dairy formula.

Not.

Some women are fanatical about breastfeeding to the point of encouraging you to continue even though your child is in pain. It's bizarre to me.

My mother breast fed me and I still had allergies and was a obese young adult. I know that's anecdotal but the pressure women put on themselves is crazy, even I did in the early days.

OP, fed is best. If your baby is happier with formula then that's what I'd do in your position.

If youve got good latch and good supply you are pretty much there! Keep going....3 weeks is still early days By start of week 7 it will all be so much easier.
I breast fed my son for 2 and a half years. Could easily given up at week 3

My babies got fussy if I ate or drank anything acidic- tea, coffee, milk, orange juice, tomatoes, spices, lemon/citrus, ginger, chocolate.

They did grow out of it around 6mos once they started solids.

Bf is a two way relationship. It has to work for you both. Do what's right for you and your baby.

Hi there, in relation to your latest post..... Your diet seems to be pretty bland at the moment, I don't see any problem there. Just as precaution, I would avoid take aways and ready meals (I remember 2 horrendous nights with DS1 after Chinese buffet and DS2 after a plateful of curry - I was much more careful with my diet after that). I have checked the NHS website on reflux - your baby's symtoms don't match (I would avoid general googling on reflux - anyone can post anything on internet). As others said and it has been my experience too - breastfed babies poo A LOT in the early weeks (then it goes in reverse after 2 months). The poos are definitely very loose. I can definitely tell both my breastfed children wriggled a lot as if in pain in early weeks. My take on it- surely Mother Nature knew what she was doing when she created babies and breastmilk. What formula are your using? NHS recommends First infant formula (unless advised differently by a midwife or HV). If you are using Hungry baby formula this might explain the difference in stools. As I have mentioned earlier, there is no right or wrong way forward here. However, it's my gut feeling you might regret it later if you stop now. 3 weeks is a tricky age and what you are seeing in your baby's behaviour might still be a coincidence. I remember both my babies went through spells of unsettled behaviour for no discernible reason. I suggest you try seeing your local infant feeding support group. They are usually staffed with very experienced people, they won't judge and they will support your choices. Failing that, try Breastfeeding Network helpline (sometimes it's difficult to get through - it's managed by volunteers). I used to volunteer for BF Network - we support women in their choices, without agendas of our own. I hope it helps

@Octosaurus
I feel your pain with this thread. My dd had awful reflux, and colic in the first 7 weeks she just screamed and arched on the boob and then cried for hours after, and would want the boob again only to be in the same pain as before! Explosive poos 10+ times a day. She always seemed so uncomfortable. But I just didn't want to give up ebf so I persevered. I had a constant battle of wanting to give up, even bought some formula but I knew in my heart that I couldn't give up yet.
I can honestly tell you that after week 6, she started feeding a lot better. And then by week 7 she completely stopped all the screaming and seemed so much more comfortable. Her digestive system just needed time to catch up. She's now 1 and still ebf, and I'm so grateful I didn't give up!
If you need to go your own sanity (the guilt is so tough) then by all means don't suffer through unnecessarily. But just know it does get better! ❤️

@Mamai90 it goes both ways. There are definitely some people with a formula ‘agenda’, for want of a better word.

Also i disagree with the cmpa, my dd had exactly your babies symptoms; the curdled spit up, the mucusy poos, her poos were green sometimes as well, crying in pain when pooing, he stomach would regularly look round and swollen from too much gas. I'm vegan so didn't consume any dairy and I cut out soy in case that was it. That didn't make much difference.

I agree - there are posters encouraging the OP to continue with bf even when she has said her DC is in pain.

Formula is amazing and gives babies a brilliant start in life.

Personally I think you know best. Your child clearly isn't tolerating breast milk well. Believe the evidence of your own unique experience.
When my second child struggled to breast feed everyone told me to continue and he would be better off etc etc. I contacted breastfeeding support through the nhs and privately. My son lost more and more weight until he was nearly hospitalised. I eventually gave up and bottle fed and he was a healthy weight again in 6 weeks. I don’t know why I listened to all these well meaning professionals and not my own experience.

I wouldn't feel guilty about using formula if breast feeding isn't for you or just isn't working.

If you WANT to continue breastfeeding definitely see if you have a local support group, breastfeeding or lactation consultant. This was crucial for me.

I combi fed for first 4 weeks due to supply not coming inand baby is fine. Plenty exclusively formula fed. No shame on those who do, personally I couldn't afford to stay on ready made formula and I just couldn't deal with the faff of the powdered stuff because my baby was always hungry and it was never ready on time. But I guess if you ff exclusively you probably get in a rhythm. I think getting the nutrients on the baby is way more a priority than the supposed benefits of BF. I am always v suspicious when it says "reduce your baby's risk " because they don't put any numbers to it and it could make very little difference ( you don't see loads of adults walking round today saying If only I was breastfed)

We are 3 months now and EBF and I am actually happy doing it! I even pump a bit spare ( used fenugreek and power pumping to increase supply)

I'm not sure the poo and sick are too unusual tbh but you do say he seems uncomfortable. I'm not sure why GP said can't be an allergy - definitely is a thing! Kept being suggested for me. My baby had similar reactions before we started mix feeding also alot of time seemed to have trapped wind but it turned out all of that was due to a low supply. So she was constantly feeding but not getting much milk out.

Do what feels right for you. Its so hard worry about what's best and judgment from others. You just have to block out the other voices and think about what's best for baby and you.