Trump gets gagged, McCarthy gets booted. What's next in Trumpworld?

[AcrossthePond55]

Roll up, roll up for the GOP Mystery Tour!! Trump thread lost-the-count!!!

Chump change. Doofus probably feels it's well worth it if it gets his 'message' out to even one potential juror.

It's like us being fined $10 for illegal parking. If I knew that paying a $10 fine saved me from walking half a mile then I'd park illegally.

The real deterrent is jail time. He's not going to stop until he ends up behind bars.

And of course Doofus is taking all the credit for Johnson being elected Speaker.

From the BBC website:

"At this time yesterday, nobody was thinking of Mike," Trump said. "And then we put out the word and now he's Speaker of the House."

"So, I want to just thank all of the great supporters that I have," Trump added.

And re Johnson himself:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/mike-johnson-january-6-house-speaker-nominee-rcna122081

@AcrossthePond55 gerrymandering of districts is unfortunately also a factor. And Republican administrations disenfranchising voters of color every chance they get.

I live in a reliably blue state, and sometimes hate that I feel like my vote doesn’t make a difference like it would in a swing state.

My amateur take on this:
Quite rightly, the US Constitution is an attempt to come up with something a lot better than being ruled by a bunch of people thousands of miles away, while also guarding against US citizens who want to pervert governance for their own ends. This seems to have ended up with two Parliaments and a President, so that everyone can keep an eye on everyone else. Possibly at the expense of effective government.

The UK does have a Constitution, of course, but it's an unwritten one. That means we can pass laws, and in deciding on cases, the judiciary can set precedents based on those laws. If we need a new bit of Constitution, the great and the good get together and work something out. At least, I think that's roughly how it's supposed to work.

Democracy is the least worst form of government. IUIC, effective democracy also requires well educated participants. I must say, I have heard many well educated intelligent Americans speaking on BBC World Service, and CNN, recently. Not to mention you lot

To be fair, none of the speaker candidates were palatable to anyone with a conscience (and/or a backbone).

The U.K. knows only too well what happens when you elect someone who goes by the name of Johnson...

Democracy is the least worst form of government.

I think sortition probably is. In fact unless anyone can prove otherwise, I shall posit that it is the best form of government, depending what you think government is for. And we are learning there is a spread of opinions as to what that is.

I get your feeling and yes, gerrymandering & disenfranchisement is a real problem. But again, our only power (unless we want to run for office) is in the vote. The 'other problem' is that the Dem Party isn't real willing to play as dirty as the GOP, and that they appear to be ignoring the strategy the GOP is using to 'capture' those low level elective offices the GOP realizes can be key in manipulating future elections. There are times to 'go high when they go low' but sometimes you also have to fight fire with fire.

I'm in one of the 'bluest of the blue' states, but I still feel my vote counts. Especially because I live in a 'pocket of red' within this state. It counts because I can vote in reliably 'blue' legislators. If we, even in reliably blue states, don't vote to keep our states blue, we risk losing it. And because a high voter turnout encourages everyone to vote. And hopefully that will encourage swing state Democrats & Independents to get out and vote.

@AcrossthePond55 oh I agree with every word you said! And I never ever miss an election or a chance to vote and neither do my young adult kids! My youngest DD mithers all her friends to vote too, but unfortunately many of them “don’t see the point”! But she perseveres.

And while I love Mrs Obama, I do think we should be going low nowadays because we’re taking a butter knife to a knife fight.

@SerendipityJane Churchill's quote, not mine. In fact he prefaced it with the words "it has been said that" - and no-one has found a source he could have been plausibly quoting.
This has, as you might imagine, generated some discussion.
Project MUSE - The Churchill Hypothesis (jhu.edu)
The Worst Form of Government? (Forum for Philosophy) | Philosophy, Logic and Scientific Method (lse.ac.uk)
The Ancient Greeks practised sortition democracy. But how does everyone know the lottery is drawn fairly? How do you get selected to go into the lottery in the first place, and who does the selecting? In Ancient Greece, I would guess you had to be a free man, with money, estates, slaves and golden escalators.

the ancient greeks had an idea of democracy.
but I wouldn't call it one if not all citizens were included (i.e. women and slaves)

I've been looking for a thread on here about the latest mass shooting in Lisbon and can't find one. Has it come to this, we are so inured to these horrors, it's not worth creating a thread about it? (I'm not one to create a political thread, my foot runs away at my mouth.)
I agree, @Wallaw, I've been looking at the social media formerly known as Twitter, and it is amazing how many commentators are victim blaming those who were shot for not carrying weapons! I mean what the actual Flaming Nora is that about?
Since we are not going back to before Trump was elected and getting Hillary in instead, what is the future going to be? I see Trump just left a court because he disagreed with the judge - why on earth is that allowed? Why isn't he jailed immediately for contempt of court?
I'm too old for this, I can't cope. Moving further to the "left" (or as I call it, humanitarianism) as I age.

Slavery is a long and noble tradition. Even the Bible has a guide on how to treat your slaves. With a rather peculiar insistence on "male and female" slaves. I look forward to it being cancelled, when someone gets round to reading it.

Maybe the UD needs reconstructing ?

The slaves didn't have the vote though. In Greece, the Middle East, and in many other places. That's part of the point of slavery. Unequal distribution of resources and power? Thank goodness that went out with the Ark (cynical )

On the subject of the Ark, the new Speaker is a Creationist, the whackadoodle type of Christian

I have read all about the new Speaker. He sounds absofuckinglutely awful.

@BruceAndNosh said: On the subject of the Ark, the new Speaker is a Creationist, the whackadoodle type of Christian.

I suspect The Flintstones have much to answer for! The new Speaker probably thinks it was a cartoon documentary.

Ivanka Trump will have to testify in business fraud case against her father and brothers, a New York judge rules

So, the 'golden child' may not be golden much longer, eh? If she decides to tell the truth, that is.

But I think there's a lot more of Dear Old Dad in her than her carefully crafted socialite/philanthropist/devoted mum image allows. She'll throw him under the bus at the first hint that her own image may be tarnished.

I'm expecting her to be significantly more slippery than her father.

He's been top dog in his own world for many years, so is overt in his behaviour. ("Yeh, and? Wotcha gonna do?")

She's a rung down from him and has had to manage and appease him all her life. So while I think she's probably made in his image, she's more likely to try to eel her way through than bulldoze.

Bet she and Rebekah Wade/Brooks of News International make a fun pair at parties...

Do we want to start our own little sweepstakes on how long the new Speaker will stay in post? I'm going for 50-50 odds he'll be out by Xmas, and 100% odds he'll be out by March 2024.

I'm not so sure they'll be rid of him any time soon. They got rid of McCarthy so easily because he agreed to a 'one member making a motion to vacate' scenario. It used to be that it took 5 members to make a motion to vacate. I honestly don't know if the actual rule was changed, or if McCarthy just agreed to abide by the one motion to vacate. If it's back to 5, they might not find it so easy to get rid of him. And even if they came up with 5, the GOP still has the majority in the House so a party line vote won't get him out. Unless he does something truly egregious (by GOP 'standards') I'm afraid we're stuck with him until Jan 2025. Assuming we have a 'blue wave' in the Nov 2024 election.

He's a hard line Trumper and election denier. Seems there are very few of the more moderate GOP Reps brave enough to stand against the radical few.

'one member making a motion to vacate' hazard applies to Johnson, too. This is probably why Johnson was so concilliatory towards Jeffries; he wont' survive if he doesn't speak nicely to Dems, but he won't survive if he makes any deals with Dems.

November 17th looms. IIRC, Johnson most recently voted no additional funds for Israel or Ukraine, which is not a unified position in House GOP (meanwhile Senate is strongly bipartisan wanting both to be funded). Extremist GOP Reps will never agree to bills that passed in Senate with strong bipartisan support or even Biden's budgets... Johnson will never placate the Repn zealots because they don't care if USgovt & indeed society turn into anarchy.

It's really come to something when Molly Jong-Fast is lamenting the precarious state of the Rep party. Her Pod is full of NeverTrumpers lately.

Here in the UK we don't have a functioning first party. And after 13 years the opposition lacks experience. As was the case when Blair led Labour to victory in 1997. Hopefully, the Labour party, if and when it is elected, will look to those who have experience in government, even if they are Blairites The Blair Gvt did a lot of good things in a post-industrial post-colonial country with dwindling finances. They got in because everyone was sick to the back teeth of Maggie Thatcher, and even though John Major was a Good Egg, we had had enough of the Tories...

As was the case when Blair led Labour to victory in 1997.

It's amazing how much was achieved in the first few years after that. Almost as if the "blob" hadn't had a chance to smother change.