AIBU to think 15-minute cities are a good thing?

[ForthegracegoI]

I live in a 15-minute city location and it's absolutely brilliant.

Within 15 minutes walk I have easy access to:

Multiple cafes, bars, pubs, restaurants.
Multiple hairdressers, salons, barbers etc.
Many, many shops.
Several gyms.
Cinema.
Two swimming pools.
My oldest's high school is literally across the road. My youngest's school is slightly further, probably 12 minutes walk.
My GP, gynaecologist, dentist, optician - all within 10 minutes walk.
Trauma centre: when my youngest fell and broke his arm on the way home from school, he was in the trauma centre and being treated straight away. We walked there, and walked home afterwards.
Hospital - DH is having an operation in a couple of weeks: he'll walk there, and probably walk home a few days later
Veterinary surgery.
Small supermarket and two different fresh produce markets, and loads of bakers / grocers / 'metro' type supermarkets.
Huge park, including a zoo and botanical garden.
Four smaller parks with play equipment and outdoor gyms - one literally across the road.
Bus stops, underground stops and the main city railway station is (just) within 15 minutes walk.

The 'price' I pay for this:
We live in an apartment, not a house.
We don't have off street parking (we do still have a car for holidays / weekend trips / trips to IKEA for big items) but we do have resident parking - it's never been a problem to get parked.

For work, DH and I both cycle - 25 minutes each way. It's a great way to build exercise into the daily routine. Our apartment building has a secure bike storage room in it.

So as not to drip feed; we don't live in the UK, we live in France. We aren't huge earners - DH is a teacher, I work in administration in a school. We are definitely in a 'naice' area, but it's not super-wealthy at all.

I can't understand why Rishi Sunak would actively campaign against making essential services easily accessible to people living in cities.

You don’t get a fine for leaving the area. You may for using certain roads at certain times, but you can always leave. And again, that’s LTNs.

Not sure how you are arriving at that. All city neighbourhoods should have all the services. As the6 did about 40 years ago. Restore the investment.

The idea is that it’s for all city neighbourhoods, not just rich ones. Why have you bought the idea that we can’t provide good infrastructure for all areas?

in short, it's a country where you need to have a car if you want to do regular everyday things, even though it's small. And instead of making it easier to not have a car all that most transport initiatives do is make it expensive and difficult to have one. … in the hope that some people will stop having one, and that having good public transport will become viable.

Almost a quarter of people in the UK have no access to a car. That’s too many to simply ignore

And I know I point this out all the time but I'm going to do it again I'm dyspraxic I cannot "ride a bike" I can drive a car no im not dangerous driving a car but it did take me a long time to learn cycling has always eluded me and my mother is the same (plus she gets pluracy and lives up a huge hill how will that work she can't even walk it ffs) my dad has emphysema should he strap his oxygen tank on a bike and pedal?

Focusing on cycling just because boris and other love it is ridiculous we don't live in Holland we have hills here

I grew up in a village in the 1960s and 70s. We had all the shops, a doctor’s surgery, pubs, youth activities. Yes, for a library or hospital you needed to travel, but it’s not impossible to have most of that in less heavily populated areas. We’ve just let it decline.

That’s the hysterical conspiracy theory bit though. Nobody is being confined to the areas. With LTNs (different from 15 min cities incidentally) certain routes are controlled at certain times to control congestion. You can always leave, you just might have to take a longer route. Which many do anyway to avoid traffic…

That's technically true, but the fact remains that the main driver behind this isn't to make people's lives better. It's to reduce emissions in a way that's as cheap as possible, and the devil is in the detail.

If 15 min neighbourhoods are created, and provide all the benefits as stated. Why would there be a need to implement LTN's? People have everything they need, they'll naturally stay where they are if it's that great.

Equally, while you can 'theoretically' leave, if your only two choices are travelling through a crowded ring road (that turns a 10 minute journey into a 40 minute one) or a £70 fine then it's disingenuous to pretend that people's choices haven't been restricted.

I don't see why they can't just provide better public transport, like London. Provide more freedom of movement, instead of cutting down.

FWIW I'm not car attached. The only reason I have one is to drive to work - when I eventually quit to get a job in a major city/fully remote I'm selling it.

But having moved here from London I can see how appalling public transport is. London has buses that come every 10 minutes. Why can't that be done here?

I live in what is effectively a 15 minute city. And in a LTN, I can still drive to and from my front door but on a restricted number of roads, there is no through traffic, just people driving to the homes and businesses on the street. People who live IN the LTN love it. Those who can no longer race round our cobbled streets at high speed on rat runs do not. The only drawback is that the lack of traffic makes it feel slightly unsafe at night and it is uncannily quiet. We’re well connected by public transport to the wider city, I go for weeks without driving. It works because it is densely populated; lots of flats rather than low density houses. So there are plenty of people to sustain all the services, shops etc. in the small area. It’s similar to many European cities where there are large populations in the centre with local shops etc.

Possibly on the council estate over the road, but also quite possibly more than 15 minutes walk way along the bus or train routes.

I’m keen on more mixed housing (partly social as well as private rented, houses as well as flats of different sizes) being built, because I completely agree that it’s important that people have the option to live near their work. Though I commute about an hour, as it happens.

Why have so many people fallen for the conspiracy that they'd be limited to 15 mins journey from their home? My cousin has gone full Facebook loon on this, lives no where near Oxford but is obsessed with some idea that people there are being trapped.

All it is is the concept that planning rules and development zones IN TOWNS AND CITIES (so nothing to do with you in your Very Rural locations) should ensure facilities such as GPs, retail, schools, some offices/commercial spaces, leisure are within a short journey of most people in residential areas - eg the developers of those massive new build estates should be required to reserve space for the construction of schools/shops/community centre/pubs/doctors surgeries on their sites to ensure that residents can access basic needs without needing to drive for ages.

Or in another example - in an established residential area, planning permission would not be granted to close pubs/retail/community halls and turn it into more residential building because the council would recognise there is a wider value in ensuring areas have those facilities.

Or if would involve ensuring public transport and pedestrian and cycling facilities made it possible for people to access facilities - for example if there is a major A road between your house and the primary school you may drive even though it would only be 15 mins walk. If there was a pleasant safe route there, you might walk instead so it could involve identifying where better road crossing facilities are needed or requiring developers to add a public access footpath across their site if it means local people would then have better routes to the shops/station/doctors.

Towns and cities should have good bus routes, which are also vehicles. Unfortunately most do not. Im a bit of a public transport geek, I grew up on public transport, my mum didnt drive and we lived in south london, we were able to walk to everything. But thats in the 70s and 80s anyway and I no longer live there (cant afford to), my parents moved further out but still in London, they have to drive and are very elderly.

Whereever we go in the country, I like a nosy at the timetables, buses are often a couple of times a week from some places or even if running are not enough, dont go enough places, last bus is way too early to be effective.

People are likely to use cabs if they need to get around by car but cant drive for whatever reason and if public transport isnt effective for them

All of this. 👏👏

Why have I bought the idea?????

Because Ive lived in the UK my entire life. We dont and cant provide good infrastructure for all areas!!!!

I also wasnt just referring to 'rich city neighbourhoods'. In poor city neighbourhoods people on part time minimum wages or even full time minimum wages cant afford to rent or buy in the city centre.

My point is, who works there and where do THEY live, and OK for a GP/dentist/library people will go local but for cafes, cinemas, clothes shopping - surely the businesses also want to attract people from other areas, or they are not sustainable. Hence it becomes an area people commute to.

This this this. It's an ideal, a concept to help shape planning for new neighbourhoods, nothing more. How it has become a conspiracy theory is completely beyond me.

That we haven’t doesn’t me we can’t or shouldn’t try to.

They live there. We’re only talking about essential businesses - food etc. the people living there will be sufficient. Plus it’s nit about stopping anyone going to these shops. It’s about ensuring nobody has to if they choose not to.

This thread is no good for my blood pressure. I think I'll walk to the local shop (one minute away) buy an ice cream, and eat it on a bench in the nearest square (3 minutes away).

Im all for the trying to. Im just realistic enough to know its pie in the sky

We moved down here from London about 14 years ago. My eyes were opened quite frankly I was one of those annoying Londoners who years ago was very anti car, why dont people use public transport, they dont need it blah blah blah

I had to shut my trap once I realised how the rest of the country functions, utterly naive.

Since being here there has been lots of housing built and huge new roads, not one extra cycle lane or cycling options for those new roads, its quite incredible. No new GPs or dentist (cant get a dentist for love nor money), no school places added, shops closing not opening. A brand new station on a line most people now cant afford, with NO public transport to and from it!!!! No pavements to it, let alone a cycle route.

Its incredible.

Everyone from dentists and GPs down to the pot washer in the pub?
What if they get married or move in with a partner?
What if it's a minimum wage job and you can't recruit locally but the teenagers up the road need a job - do they have to move into the area?

Eh? You are making no sense.
the idea is that every neighbourhood would have theses services yes, you might work in a different one, but you would have the services in your own neighbourhood. You are trying to make it too prescriptive. It’s a planning aspiration is all.

The Yorkshire town I live in has all of this already. Except the zoo and the tube. Harrogate. It’s great.

The idea of 15 minutes is aspirational not creepy. Many better off towns and cities have had it for decades. Just like good state schools, healthcare, affordable leisure and culture, it should be available to everyone.

And like any social good for the masses and the planet that is not designed to make the rich richer, the far right manipulated the idea of ‘15 minute cities’ into a conspiracy theory to prevent folk mobilising and demanding better.

the idea is that every neighbourhood would have theses services yes, you might work in a different one, but you would have the services in your own neighbourhood.

but where's the money coming from to fund all this infrastructure?

@bellac11 of course it needs massive investment of course our recent political history suggests it’s unlikely. But people are objecting based on bonkers ideas of control. It’s a planning aspiration. Why so negative?