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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think 15-minute cities are a good thing?

425 replies

ForthegracegoI · 01/10/2023 17:38

I live in a 15-minute city location and it's absolutely brilliant.

Within 15 minutes walk I have easy access to:

Multiple cafes, bars, pubs, restaurants.
Multiple hairdressers, salons, barbers etc.
Many, many shops.
Several gyms.
Cinema.
Two swimming pools.
My oldest's high school is literally across the road. My youngest's school is slightly further, probably 12 minutes walk.
My GP, gynaecologist, dentist, optician - all within 10 minutes walk.
Trauma centre: when my youngest fell and broke his arm on the way home from school, he was in the trauma centre and being treated straight away. We walked there, and walked home afterwards.
Hospital - DH is having an operation in a couple of weeks: he'll walk there, and probably walk home a few days later
Veterinary surgery.
Small supermarket and two different fresh produce markets, and loads of bakers / grocers / 'metro' type supermarkets.
Huge park, including a zoo and botanical garden.
Four smaller parks with play equipment and outdoor gyms - one literally across the road.
Bus stops, underground stops and the main city railway station is (just) within 15 minutes walk.

The 'price' I pay for this:
We live in an apartment, not a house.
We don't have off street parking (we do still have a car for holidays / weekend trips / trips to IKEA for big items) but we do have resident parking - it's never been a problem to get parked.

For work, DH and I both cycle - 25 minutes each way. It's a great way to build exercise into the daily routine. Our apartment building has a secure bike storage room in it.

So as not to drip feed; we don't live in the UK, we live in France. We aren't huge earners - DH is a teacher, I work in administration in a school. We are definitely in a 'naice' area, but it's not super-wealthy at all.

I can't understand why Rishi Sunak would actively campaign against making essential services easily accessible to people living in cities.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Californiabound · 01/10/2023 18:14

If you really believe that cardibach good for you, jump right on board. These people have your best interests at heart and don't want to restrict your freedom whatsoever. Isn't it all so heartwarming.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:15

EmmaEmerald · 01/10/2023 18:13

cardibach "They’re about making more services available locally."

it's very hard to believe that though, when services were cut for years. I had to campaign hard to get local out of hours to stay in my old patch of London.

where I live now, there's basically no out of hours. No governments do things to benefit people so you can't blame people for being worried.

tradesmen etc in my area are very worried in case the local council get ideas about ULEZ and LTN type measures. One of my neighbours drives her DD about an hour for a SEN school in the city, if they start charging to enter there, it will be another strike against people who already up against tons of problems.

Absolutely. And that’s why Sunak doesn’t support them - he’s not interested in in eating in services. And yet some people see his attack in them as something good and to be voted for.
Gullible people.

EmmaEmerald · 01/10/2023 18:16

Mere Hi!

I don't enjoy the daytime bus either but take the view we have a massive overpopulation problem.

elephantandorchid · 01/10/2023 18:16

Our local council has talked about introducing 15 minute areas. In theory, I like the idea, especially if our services were as good as the OP's. In practice, the council want to put in traffic restrictions but are not going to do anything about services, so we end up with the same situation we have at present, only it will take you longer to get anywhere (including by bus).

FallingAutumnLeaf · 01/10/2023 18:16

I'd settle for my town even HAVING half of the places you mention, let alone being within 15 mins walk. I'd actually like a library before quite a lot on your list. A bus service less than 15 mins walk away woukd be good too!
I can walk to the train station tho.

EarthlyNightshade · 01/10/2023 18:16

SiobhanSharpe · 01/10/2023 18:09

And this may be absolutely fine as long as you're reasonably young, fit and able to walk but it's not just 15 minutes, it's that, plus half an hour or more around the shops etc and then 15 minutes plus back.
Many of us are so able not, or if we are now we may not be in future and these walk-only zones would be hell for us.
And how do you manage the big grocery shop?

But if lots of people can walk, then it will free up parking for those who need it.
Even if driving, it would be nicer to drive 5 mins to the doctors/vets/whatever rather than 20.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:17

Californiabound · 01/10/2023 18:14

If you really believe that cardibach good for you, jump right on board. These people have your best interests at heart and don't want to restrict your freedom whatsoever. Isn't it all so heartwarming.

Which people?
Look, many politicians are arseholes, agreed.
15 minute cities are not designed as control systems.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:17

elephantandorchid · 01/10/2023 18:16

Our local council has talked about introducing 15 minute areas. In theory, I like the idea, especially if our services were as good as the OP's. In practice, the council want to put in traffic restrictions but are not going to do anything about services, so we end up with the same situation we have at present, only it will take you longer to get anywhere (including by bus).

I think you may be referring g to LTNs. Not the same as 15 minute cities.

Desecratedcoconut · 01/10/2023 18:17

I think having a range of facilities in 15 minutes walking distance is a good thing. Presumably, if it was achieved to a high enough standard, with comparable equity of service and price points to nearby areas, it could be achieved without any of the punitive and prescriptive nonsense.

Californiabound · 01/10/2023 18:18

EmmaEmerald · 01/10/2023 18:16

Mere Hi!

I don't enjoy the daytime bus either but take the view we have a massive overpopulation problem.

That's because this message has been hammered into your head, too many people, the value of each life is diminished. It's a brave new world.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:19

FallingAutumnLeaf · 01/10/2023 18:16

I'd settle for my town even HAVING half of the places you mention, let alone being within 15 mins walk. I'd actually like a library before quite a lot on your list. A bus service less than 15 mins walk away woukd be good too!
I can walk to the train station tho.

That’s the whole point though. If 15 minute cities were supported the6 would ensure you had those services. Tories will never do it as they don’t want to help ordinary people. And they are somehow making their opposition to them something ordinary people support. It’s madness.

SiobhanSharpe · 01/10/2023 18:19

'Except they aren’t walk only zones. They’re zones where walking is practical for most. You will still be able to drive in them if you need to.'
Well, not without paying or being fined, if Oxford is any example. I actually live in Cambridge where these ideas have recently been mooted then hastily discarded as they are massively unpopular.
The authorities wanted to charge every single resident of the entire city, (not just the city centre) plus visitors, a 'sustainable traffic zone' charge of £5 every time you got into your car, even if you were heading directly out of the city and lived on the edge of it.
A similar thing happened in Manchester, car charging was also scrapped as hugely unpopular with residents.

Californiabound · 01/10/2023 18:21

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:17

Which people?
Look, many politicians are arseholes, agreed.
15 minute cities are not designed as control systems.

Show quote history

How do you know? Are you just assuming?

VisaWoes · 01/10/2023 18:21

I can’t drive to anything apart from a village shop and gp surgery in 15 minutes. What happens to people who don’t live in a city and where all the facilities they need to use are in the city? My work is in the city, dc school in the city, the vets, the supermarket, the optician, the dentist…..

obviously if the govt want to bulldoze every city and town and village in the U.K. and build purpose built 15 minute cities then I guess they can do that and everything will be lovely. Maybe they will, I put nothing past them. It can be like the Hunger Games or Divergent and we can all live in our little zones. What fun.

MereDintofPandiculation · 01/10/2023 18:22

EmmaEmerald · 01/10/2023 18:16

Mere Hi!

I don't enjoy the daytime bus either but take the view we have a massive overpopulation problem.

Hi!

I think we have a massive problem around having designed our lives around everyone having access to their own car. There's a lot more public transport use in London where the subsidy per head is several times what it is in a northern city. Yes, London is hugely congested with traffic but it is a huge densely populated city. The northern cities are much smaller with a fraction of the population, but their congestion levels match those of London, and they shouldn't.

cowskeepingmeupatnight · 01/10/2023 18:23

OP, we have everything you have except the zoo and the underground. We live in Harrogate and it’s bloody brilliant. I am really aware of how fortunate we are, having lived in some crappy places, and I think all towns and cities should be as well appointed and accessible as where we are now.

EmmaEmerald · 01/10/2023 18:23

Siobhan really interesting re Cambridge and Manchester, I had no idea that was discussed.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:23

Californiabound · 01/10/2023 18:21

How do you know? Are you just assuming?

Show quote history

No. I just know what a 15 minute city is. You clearly don’t.

VisaWoes · 01/10/2023 18:23

Oh we’re supposed to be able to walk to everything in 15 mins, thought it was driving. Well seeing as I can’t drive to hardly anything in 15 mins I certainly can’t walk to anything in 15 m8ns.

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:24

VisaWoes · 01/10/2023 18:23

Oh we’re supposed to be able to walk to everything in 15 mins, thought it was driving. Well seeing as I can’t drive to hardly anything in 15 mins I certainly can’t walk to anything in 15 m8ns.

If you live in. City, a 15 minute city initiative will aim to change this. If you don’t, it’s not about you.

theduchessofspork · 01/10/2023 18:24

frivlot · 01/10/2023 17:47

There aren't many places expect central London eg z1 that you would get all that within 15 min walk. I live in z3 & am 17 mins walk to the high street which doesn't have a cinema & the swimming pool is more like 20 mins walk. Hospital would be 40 mins plus walk & only 1 park within 15 mins. Lots of food shops, restaurants & transport though although not really useful clothes shops.

I have a car but no off street parking.

It would have been common in the past though, and there is a move to make city living like this again. It’s better for the environment and for building communities.

jlpth · 01/10/2023 18:24

The 15 min city sounds so totally and utterly unattainable for most of Britain. I couldn’t even get my 15yo a flu jab within 15 mins of here. Everything is broken in the UK.

Daddydog · 01/10/2023 18:24

Problem with this country is that every idea is reactionary. I always think to the Dutch and how their local and central governments plan long term. The UK and it's idiotic councils don't have a clue how to plan. Go back a few years and we all lived 'in 15 min towns/cities. Then they happily approved plans for out of town malls and shopping areas, killed the high street, killed the local shops which lead to the death of a local community. Moved to a semi rural village outside a market town 2 years ago and apart from a hospital (have a maternity hospital though) I can be everywhere on my bike within a couple of mins. However the council are happily approving new developments in remote greenbelt 10-15 minute drives from the closest towns with zero thought on providing local services to people who live there.

Nomoreclots · 01/10/2023 18:25

Lol. Threads on 15 min cities are hilarious....people are very angry...I think they are a fabulous idea

cardibach · 01/10/2023 18:26

SiobhanSharpe · 01/10/2023 18:19

'Except they aren’t walk only zones. They’re zones where walking is practical for most. You will still be able to drive in them if you need to.'
Well, not without paying or being fined, if Oxford is any example. I actually live in Cambridge where these ideas have recently been mooted then hastily discarded as they are massively unpopular.
The authorities wanted to charge every single resident of the entire city, (not just the city centre) plus visitors, a 'sustainable traffic zone' charge of £5 every time you got into your car, even if you were heading directly out of the city and lived on the edge of it.
A similar thing happened in Manchester, car charging was also scrapped as hugely unpopular with residents.

Nobody gets fines for leaving their neighbourhood in Oxford - there may be certain routes that can’t be used at certain times.
Plus I think it’s LTNs in Oxford, not 15 minute cities.