For telling my friend to be careful with the language she uses around her daughter?

[Lolabear38]

A good friend I’ve known for 20+ years.
Friend has been recovering from anorexia for the last 10 years but has seemingly replaced the anorexia with obsessive exercise and counting macros - it’s all she can talk about and she will prioritise exercise over everything, going to the gym for hours a day. She also won’t eat certain foods if they’re over macros and is absolutely rigid about it.

Friend has 3 daughters - eldest one of whom will constantly be snacking or asking for snacks. I.e if there is a plate of biscuits she’ll eat until every one is gone, regardless of how many there are. She will ask for snacks when she can’t possibly still be hungry etc. Friend speaks to her in what I think is a really inappropriate way - e.g ‘you can’t still be hungry, you’re so greedy’, ‘put that cake down, you guts!’ And on one occasion ‘that’s not for you, put it down, fatty’. Her daughter is 7 and not overweight in the slightest though I would say she maybe has issues or potential issues with food. Friend doesn’t talk to her other two dd’s like this though from what I’ve seen they tend to be quite happy to have one biscuit/ snack then go off to play.

Anyway, the other day we were all out and went to get ice creams. All the kids had one but when it was her eldest’s turn to say what she wanted she asked for a double scoop ice cream and friend replied with ‘I might have known you’d be the one to ask for extra, of course one scoop wouldn’t be enough for you, greedy guts’. This was said quite unkindly. As we walked I said to her that I thought as parents of girls (and actually girls or boys, but as we are both girl parents this is the language I used) it’s really important to think about the language we use around our daughters and think about how it affects body image etc, and maybe think about how she speaks to her eldest when it comes to food rather than talking in a way which might make her feel ashamed or build a bad relationship around food or eating. Friend went absolutely crazy at me, telling me I was way out of line to talk to her like that, it’s up to her how she talks to her own kids (true) and she would never dream of having a go at me about how I raised my own kids. Since then we’ve not spoken at all, I sent a message saying I was sorry if she was upset by what I’d said and that wasn’t my intention. She’s ignored it. Was I out of line? To be honest, every time I hear her talk to her dd in that way it makes me wince a bit and feel so upset for her daughter, I can’t bring myself to say to her I didn’t mean it because I really did. What do you think?

No, this is not always the case. My stepdaughter was getting like this and we don't do the above.

I think calling the girl 'fatty' was wrong, of course it was. Calling her greedy for trying to eat loads of junk? Well, it IS greedy.

I always take the line 'it's bad for your teeth'.

But honestly, we had to hide food from DSD as she was getting a bit overweight from constantly raiding. Some kids are just like that, I think, and need to be taught self-regulation. She's doing ok now, we have designated snacks instead like apples, sugar-free yoghurts, babybels, etc.

OP, I don't think you were wrong to point out if she was calling her daughter fat etc, that is horrible language. But I do also think- you can't have a child eating a whole plate of biscuits. Your friend is just going about it the wrong way, and it is simply solved. We don't put plates of biscuits out.

You were 100% right well done for speaking up. Your friend has active bulimia by the sounds of it (associated with extreme exercise) but that is no excuse to fat shame her daughter. Calling a 7 year old “fatty” is utterly shameful.

Also, if she has said things like that in front of you, it doesn’t bare thinking about what she is saying to her DD behind closed doors.

I think you missed my point which is the fact this child has such a mother and this is why she is behaving this way. This is not a greed, fat, scoffing her face child it's a child who's behaviour is being directly formed by the very fact she has a mother who has disordered eating.

Your friend had a complex illness which sadly is likely to be impacting her DD.
Where I think you misjudged it was in thinking it was within your remit as a friend and lay person to try to advise her. It was almost inevitable this would be the result and I think unfortunately your friendship may be over, as this will likely have made her feel unsafe around you. She will find it very difficult to have heard what you had to say, and so has responded by rejecting it and framing you as in the wrong.
You were in a very difficult position being able to see harm being done to a child and its understandable you wanted to intervene. But where an illness like this is concerned its very much a kid gloves approach, and if you do resume a friendship and want to help, you might want to get some advice from an ED charity as to the best approach.

I wonder if the reason the child might be always hungry is if your friend isn't giving appropriate portion sizes at meals, leaving her daughter taking what she can, then getting shamed for it.

I wondered this too. Whatever, if the daughter is not overweight she clearly is not overeating.

Disgraceful
She's using her daughter as an extension of her own thoughts about herself

This x 100.

I feel so, so sorry for that little girl.

You were right to say something. Her reaction is not surprising though. She's obviously defensive and still not recovered, which will taint her view of everything. She's probably projecting her own thoughts on her daughter. It is not a healthy or safe environment for a child to grow up, and she can do so much damage to her daughter.

Sadly, there is not a lot you can do to protect her and I doubt your friend will change her ways. That poor kid.

Those poor poor girls
FWIW my friend has/has anorexia and it’s a terrible condition, but she actually takes her recovery seriously for the sake of her child. You would NEVER hear her projecting food issues onto her kid - that’s her biggest fear and she deals with that in therapy.
what your friend is doing is disgusting and selfish.

Clearly this woman has serious problems. Saying something to her like this is highly unlikely to sort out the situation. Potentially it could make things worse - she is clearly not thinking straight and still suffering from serious mental health problems. You have no idea how her disordered mind will process what you have said. She clearly needs professional help, hopefully she gets it, but that’s a matter for her family to address.

I think you did a good thing here. She will be mortified and defensive as many of us are when called out on something- but it may give her pause when she speaks to her daughter in future. Even if she never admits that to you, and she may not forgive you- if it results in her being a bit more careful in the way she talks to her daughter about food, that will be a brilliant thing.

As someone who has been in a lot of eating disorder support groups, I fear that your friends words will become her children’s internal critical voice if she doesn’t stop.
crazy that she is so unaware, she isn’t I. Recovery at all, she had just replaced her illness imo.

I think it sounds quite likely that the child isn't getting the right portion sizes for meals. It must be quite hard for a mother who has an eating disorder to recognise what is the right portion size for her child of that age, and possibly even more so when a child has younger siblings.
I've know a lot of parents insist on giving their children exactly the same size portions even when there are several years difference between them in age.
And how many biscuits is a plate of biscuits anyway? Even as an adult if someone was to put a plateful of biscuits out to be eaten, I'd assume they were fair game. As an adult I'd try to make sure I wasn't taking more than everyone else but I'm not sure I'd have had that judgement as a young child.

Anorexia and bulimia are very difficult and complex illnesses to treat and it sounds like your friend still is in the grip whether she realises it or not. Intervention by a layperson however well meaning was never going to be successful - these are complex mental health illnesses.

It is very difficult when you see a child being harmed by the language she is using as it places you in a difficult situation, but to me the best advice would be to contact one of the eating disorder charities for advice on how to handle it. I would still seek advice now even though she is blanking you, as it may help you leave the door open for the future.

You were right to say something.

The very fact your friend is obsessed with food and anorexic (she doesn't sound in recovery but rather managing it) and her DD is also food obsessed shows those habits have already formed in her DD.

It doesn't matter that her DD wants everything and she restricts, eating disorders in general are around relationships with food. Her 7yo has a bad one. Almost like she's scared to not eat everything there in case it's taken away which may stem from her mum always talking about restricting sorts of her diet?

She's abusing her child! You were right to call her out.

If you are genuinely concerned her dd isn’t being fed enough and is binging when she has the opportunity, you could flag this with the school.

Is it though? I think that is illogical as depends on what someone has eaten that day surely. Also, if you have to comment at all why do you need to add the 'greedy' bit?

My DC are not young but both really thin as they self regulate, they may have two/three biscuits one day but no more through choice on other days.

This is not my concern - as my op reads I’m concerned about the language my friend is using when she talks to her dd about her eating.

You absolutely did the right thing, OP. I applaud you in fact.
It's not only a case of how she speaks to her daughter, though. There's a lot to unpick there with why the child overeats in the first place

I would be concerned about the child’s overeating too. Is it because in the normal run of things she is not getting enough food at home and knows she can get any with it while you are there?

There's an article in the Guardian today about the damage verbal abuse does to a child. (Weirdly the headline says shouting but the text is all about verbal abuse and choice of words). Calling her daughter greedy, the cruelty of singling her out and saying 'of course' it's her wanting more ice cream, telling her 'not for you fatty' - it's all so damaging and here are the long-term effects:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/02/shouting-at-children-can-be-as-damaging-as-physical-or-sexual-abuse-study-says

Being criticised for our parenting is very hard to hear, no matter how justified the criticism might be. In her case it also links in to her own thoughts and fears about food so talking to her about it was never going to land well, and you were both out with your children so she had no time to process or respond fully to what you said. For those reasons I think you were wrong to say what you said when you said it.

Those kinds of conversations need some space, privacy and sensitivity - it would have been better to wait until you were both able to speak freely and to come from a place of concern for her and her child. She’s clearly struggling and her daughter is bearing the brunt, but she won’t see it that way and needs care herself to get there.

I also think “sorry if you were upset” isn’t an apology - maybe you didn’t mean it that way but it comes across that it’s her reaction that’s the issue, rather than anything you’ve done.

Your intentions were coming from a good place, but you could have done things in a more sensitive way which might have helped her hear your concerns.

Contact social services too. She’s abusing them