AIBU to think the disabled are the next target?

[Locutus2000]

The Guardian

Though Jeremy Hunt said the government was “not in a position” to contemplate a decrease in tax immediately, he said the welfare budget could be hit further down the line to foot the bill.

He told the Times that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.

The welfare system had to be a “mix of carrot and stick”, with more assistance required to help people find work, given there was “no shortage of jobs”, he added."

Funny how 'carrot and stick' always equates to 'more stick'.

My niece doesn’t want to work & never has. She admits this openly. She also doesn’t want to pay water as it falls from the sky for free🙄 she definitely has more disposable income than me. She’s just had a new bathroom & radiators. She also got registered with the only nhs dentist in the area & gets free scripts

Why don't you just do whatever she is doing then?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=450318782846517

Bit old this but still the tories are keen to blame the disabled rather than all those tax dodging corporations.

Hoefully you're not planning to be part of that statistic

I'm in my early - mid 50s and can't access the bit of public sector pension I accrued before having the audacity to give birth to disabled children until I'm 60.

It is you go to a panel

That’s the case for almost all public sector pensions.

I think yeah it’s fair to say the elderly use a lot of resource but then whats the alternative? We can’t deny them health or social care. I suppose you could basically pop all social care they receive as a charge against their capital but healthcare is free at the point of use for everyone.

I’m always slightly bewildered when people go into care homes and their families complain that they have had to sell their house. They are unlikely to go back to it and why should the taxpayer pick up the bill so someone else gets to keep their inheritance. Maybe we do need to have a more honest conversation about how we fund old age. More means testing etc.

My view tends to be that I would rather my DD pay less income tax while she’s young and trying to get on in life vs maybe receiving a lump sum when I’m dead.

I’m also unsure why working 16 hours means people are exempt from the benefit cap. I think it creates a ceiling rather than a floor when people are planning their working lives. As I said in a pp less than a third of the population are actually working full time. This really is unsustainable.

The majority of the welfare bill is for pension benefits, but of course the Tories will not touch that due to pensioners voting Tory, instead money will be taken from the most vulnerable in our society, to give wealthy people tax breaks. Along with cuts to services, and issues due to lockdown, I feel young people have been totally sacrificed, with no thanks for essentially staying inside for 2 years to protect the elderly. Given how long people live, the future looks very bleak.

I worked in the public sector; my pension contributions were invested so that the scheme self funds. Every year I get a statement that tells me how that fund is doing. Can someone explain why the governments of this country did not have the wherewithal/common-sense to do the same? Why ,at no point, did any Chancellor think' oh this needs to be self funding'? MP's are supposed to think of these things. the Chancellor is supposed to be able to manage the economy, no one seems to be blaming them for the mess. Apparently I am responsible because I am over pension age, and as I keep saying I have never voted Tory! FWIW I don't think Labour thought it through either, but they at least haven't governed the country for as long.

🙄

Yes it is true that older people are more likely to vote Tory, (and when I say older I mean people aged 40+). It is true about the welfare bill. It is true about younger people. But blaming everything on pensioners is ageist bile.

We didn't lockdown to save older people, why are you rewriting history?

Given how long people live, the future looks very bleak

So what do you suggest?

Can someone explain why the governments of this country did not have the wherewithal/common-sense to do the same?

Because the money had to be used to pay the pensions of pensioners at the time it came into the Treasury. There was never an enormous lump sum to invest which is the only way that could have happened. It’s been this way ever since pensions were five shillings (25p) a week.

As a nation we have missed lots of opportunities for a sovereign wealth fund though. We could have invested oil and gas revenues like Norway. Or we could have invested the proceeds of our colonial adventures, given that these gains were ill gotten anyway. What a pity that as one of the wealthiest nations in the world we’ve never thought to open a savings account.

I suggest a fairer spread of resources, and perhaps not prolonging life at all cost. I for one do not want to be kept alive if I end up having dementia. The lockdown was to protect older and infirm people, as most people did not risk death if they had covid. I supported it of course, but I dont see that there is much gratitude for the young people and kids who missed out on their education. It feels that society is geared towards supporting pensioners above everybody else, but who is meant to care for them? Disabled people are seemingly forgotten about yet again. This is the Tory way. Surely there would be enough money to care for everyone if taxation was fair.

The lockdown was to protect older and infirm people, as most people did not risk death if they had covid

No. We had to avoid the NHS becoming overwhelmed. That meant protecting those most likely to become seriously ill with the virus. Of all ages. Why did you think so many other European countries did the same?

Disabled people are seemingly forgotten about yet again

Not true, sadly. The Tories are currently demonising disabled people (and it is working, look at some replies on here).There are also parallels with the way older people are being denigrated by some on this board.

This is a real issue. No matter how many pensioners on MN take over every thread and make it all about older people.

The government have some major issues which are backed up by fiscal fact:
54.2% of adults now don’t contribute.
There are less people paying tax than ever before.
The state dependency is now the highest on record.

There is the issue that there appears to be a growing resentment amongst middle ages and younger generations. Several hardcore posters on mn making it all about them won’t change that. The younger generations are really struggling and probably will never see state pension. It’s ok though - as stated in this thread pensioners aren’t swimming in it; they just have expensive houses. It’s all so tone deaf. It’s the whole attitude which gets people’s backs up. If only you didn’t buy your avocados… This is a growing problem and the government know it. Me, me, me.

As this thread is about disabled benefits and not exclusively pensioners (not that you’d know). I think some people have raised some really good points. Everyone knows if they stop and think of the fiscal situation is unsustainable. However, how does society change to enable more people into work and contributions to society?

This concerns me greatly. Myself and two friends between us suffer terribly with mental health issues, Fibro, epilepsy, ibs, arthritis, eczema, depression ect. Where are they going to draw the line?.

So many innocent people are going to suffer and or die because they just want more job slaves earning money for the greedy elites.

Really? Or is that as a country, the huge majority don’t even work full-time? We are borrowing our way as a country to pay for the state. Put simply, not enough people are paying in to even keep the basics without going into debt. The sound bites about ‘the elite’ are meaningless. As a country, right now, we can’t afford the welfare state, education, health, defence, etc without borrowing colossal amounts.

The sheer numbers suffering with MH issues and fibro are overwhelming though. I work in welfare rights and every other person seeking help with PIP forms has fibro or depression.

Try not to worry too much. The Tories have said that the reforms they are considering won't happen until after the GE, which they are very unlikely to win. They are currently desperately throwing populist meat to the last dregs of their supporters.

He told the Times that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.

That is a serious problem for any government, though.

Come on - we're often reading here on MN of people who choose to work p/t and keep benefits. So they're presumably not paying much into the system?

The wheels will come off eventually.

One area I would focus on if I were running the country would be on that critical moment that young people leave education - to get them into some kind of work. It does seem like a 'falling off the cliff' moment for many. The longer they put off finding work the harder it seems to be and very soon they're effectively unemployable. Also, it seems possible for people to retreat in to virtual worlds nowadays (PC in the basement or back bedroom) which wasn't so easy in the past. It's dangerous for our society.

I think one problem (only one of many, many, I know) is that modern life and social media has given us all impossible aspirations. When I last worked in a school, lots of the 15 year-old boys said they'd only contemplate work as a footballer or in some other glamorous line. We had a plumber (very successful in his business) come in to talk to them and they were very sneery about his chosen profession.

It's partly the media over the last few decades - on broadcast media , comedy etc etc, it's become the norm to sneer at 'ordinary' jobs, and I think young people have picked up on this.

Never supported Tory in my life. I however, can see the clear fiscal facts and understand that any government is going to have to make tough decisions.

It’s ok though - as stated in this thread pensioners aren’t swimming in it; they just have expensive houses

Well the crazy increase in the value of house prices hasn't been driven by pensioners and they are not the only demographic currently living in houses with massive equity and a low or no mortgage. Lots of working Boomers and lots of Gen X will be in the same very fortunate situation. Do you resent them having expensive houses too?

Quoted for really good - on topic points. Waaaaah Tory. Waaaaaah Labour will fix this won’t work. All politicians need a serious discussion before everyone becomes poorer. It will require some honesty too.

Yes they are. Labour will have tough decisions to make. But perhaps not with the divisive demonising of particular demographics that the Tories indulge in.