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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

649 replies

iloverobbrydon · 28/09/2023 18:05

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Smeeps · 29/09/2023 19:25

This - but ultimately lots of dried pasta is vegan, but if you were vegan I think you’d double check before ordering pasta as fresh pasta does have egg in it. If you’d have ordered the pasta and you were vegan you should have asked is the pasta vegan.

if you’d have asked whether or not the pasta was vegan then they would have known to avoid the egg…

i think you were in the wrong.

but egg on pasta sounds rank.

diddl · 29/09/2023 19:33

a restaurant only ever lists the main constituents of a dish,

How is an egg on top not a main constituent?

angela99999 · 29/09/2023 19:53

The manager.
My DH can't eat brassica or spinach, they make him sick. He was once faced with a menu where all but one of the main courses listed spinach as an ingredient. Naturally he ordered that but it turned up with spinach anyway. The staff and manager were rude when he returned it but eventually accepted that they were wrong.

SAHMTO · 29/09/2023 19:57

Considering egg is an allergen it definitely should of been listen in the menu. I would take it higher and complain to whoever is above the bad mannered manager as the attitude sounds all wrong. And this is coming from an co-owner of a restaurant which openly doesn’t really cater to vegans 🫣

plantsandwich · 29/09/2023 20:00

'PASTA CONTAINS EGGS/CANCEL THE CHEQUE' Grin
Has the OP come back at all?!

The anti-vegan police will obviously jump on this thread-perhaps OP should have written 'I didn't want an egg on my pasta AIBU' to get some more non-biased responses.

Personally am really shy of telling people I am vegan because of the awful things people say online about them (including in this thread)! I try to not make a fuss at all. Also I don't like eating in front of people generally, an issue I've had since childhood and unrelated to being vegan, but being vegan means everyone wants to have a good gawp at your food-sometimes because of curiosity, understandable of course and sometimes to try to find something 'eeeew' about it, the mere thought of which is making me anxious now! So yes, I am very much non-vocal regarding it unless I am with people who I am very comfortable with. If it comes up directly in conversation or is relevant to context (e.g. if I am invited to someone's house for dinner)yes, otherwise nobody would know. It's one of those like ' you can always tell when someone's had lip filler' no, you can tell the ones who've had it done so It's obvious!

You have probably met many vegans but how would you know they'd not told you if they hadn't? Do you know every political, religious, spiritual belief held by absolutely everyone you've ever met?

The restaurant are in the wrong and vegnaism is a red herring here. The egg is a 'feature' of the pasta dish given it is quite unusual. Some people may order it BECAUSE of the egg, and some people definitely won't order it because of the egg, perhaps due to being vegan, allergies or perhaps due to it being a bit weird, not feeling egg really goes with tomatoes, just not fancying it? Or not liking eggs, period see what I did there

It should have stipulated on the menu that the egg is included in the dish, for all these reasons. It is a main component, not a garnish, and a lot of people don't like eggs or only like them in certain things/cooked certain ways IME.

OP may have known that the restaurant doesn't use fresh pasta or perhaps neglected to think about the fact that some contains eggs, but again, that doesn't mean that even someone who LIKES eggs would knowingly order a pasta dish with one on, perhaps they just wouldn't want that? Also a pub, unless a very well-reputed one famous for its gourmet food, is not likely to keep fresh pasta in their kitchen.

Fresh pasta is expensive and goes off fairly quickly.

The pub is also daft for not specifying 'V' 'VE' 'GF' etc-they could gain more custom that way-if someone's choosing between venues and looks at the menu online 'Doens't appear to be anything I can have in that one, let's go to that one, I know I can eat there' but also, it saves time-avoiding customers having to ask waiting staff about the menu.

I don't think the comparisons to bird muck etc attract reasonable response but to many vegans, vegetarians and people who just HATE certain foods, said food is as gross to them as those things are. I certainly wouldn't eat something that had just had an egg scraped off it because even before being vegan I thought eggs were absolutely disgusting-my meat-eating DP wouldn't eat it either.

It should have said on the menu. Most menus I've encountered may not list all components of a dish, but they should at least say what the dish actually IS!

GB81 · 29/09/2023 20:01

Tomato pasta with a fried egg. Where the fuck are you eating 😂
Just forget it and go to a proper restaurant.

NameChange547 · 29/09/2023 20:02

Sixdaysleft · 29/09/2023 18:33

Incorrect.

Food standards agency state:
"14 allergensFood businesses need to tell customers if any food they provide contain any of the listed allergens as an ingredient.
Consumers may be allergic or have intolerance to other ingredients, but only the 14 allergens are required to be declared as allergens by food law.
The 14 allergens are: celery, cereals containing gluten (such as wheat, barley and oats), crustaceans (such as prawns, crabs and lobsters), eggs, fish, lupin, milk, molluscs (such as mussels and oysters), mustard, peanuts, sesame, soybeans, sulphur dioxide and sulphites (if the sulphur dioxide and sulphites are at a concentration of more than ten parts per million)* and tree nuts* (such as almonds, hazelnuts, walnuts, brazil nuts, cashews, pecans, pistachios and macadamia nuts).
This also applies to additives, processing aids and any other substances which are present in the final product."

“Restaurants must provide allergen information in writing, with full allergen information provided on either a menu, chalkboard or in an information pack. If the allergens are not clear on the menu, a written notice should be available to explain to customers how to find out allergy information. Nevertheless, this legislation puts the emphasis on the consumer being responsible for requesting extra information rather than it always being visible for all customers.”

There is absolutely no requirement for this to be on the main menu. It must be available with info on how to access it. For example there could be text at the bottom of the main menu saying that full allergen information is available, please ask your server. That is Natasha’s Law.

Mostlyoblivious · 29/09/2023 20:11

Both are in the wrong.
The pub needs to list it’s menu properly for a very good few reasons and your friends needs to state that their meal needs to be vegan. It felt like the friend was waiting to see if they messed up to then have the discussion instead of flagging it at point of order which is a little churlish

UniversalAunt · 29/09/2023 20:12

Fried egg on pasta?
Instant fail.

But as any V/VG/GF diner knows, it is well worth stating this when ordering, & some restaurants print a disclaimer asking diners to mention this when ordering.

Most restaurants go to considerable lengths to cater for Coeliacs as best they can & when asked directly will clearly state how reliably GF the dishes are.

Both parties could have helped each other out better.

StillGotBabyBrain · 29/09/2023 20:13

Typical that the people who just hate vegans have found this post.....

The restaurant is in the wrong. And is weird. Don't be embarrassed, they shouldn't be trying to make you feel this way. Also, don't feel like you're 'nit doing a good job' at veganism. You're doing your best for the animals, they need our help. Thank you for making the changes.

Also most restaurants, unless gourmet, use dried pasta. Best off though, in future, just telling them. It's annoying to have to tell them you're vegan as then people are weird with you, and accuse you of telling everyone, but, unless you do, you'll end up with a fucked up pasta dish 😉

Good luck in future!

WhoWants2Know · 29/09/2023 20:15

I wouldn't expect an egg on top of the pasta if it wasn't listed- that's a pretty eccentric addition.

But I wouldn't assume it was safe for vegans either, as a lot of pasta is made with egg.

VeganStar · 29/09/2023 20:21

PuddlesPityParty · 28/09/2023 18:12

I’m vegan and agree that it should’ve been on the menu… but wtf? Since when is egg on pasta. I’m almost thinking they don’t like vegans and heard her say it or something it’s that odd.

That crossed my mind too that they were being awkward. I’ve never ever heard of a fried egg on top of pasta. How strange!

sassyclassyandsmartassy · 29/09/2023 20:35

Ummm… pasta is made with eggs? I am a little confused.

Although I am equally confused by egg on tomato and basil pasta 🤨

plantsandwich · 29/09/2023 20:37

😂
This thread honestly

FRESH pasta is made with eggs. I doubt any standard pub uses fresh pasta, unless it is a selling point. I take the point that this one may not stipulate, as they didn't stipulate that they'd plonked an egg on top of an innocuous-sounding pasta dish, but most would!

I don't know how people don't understand that most dried pasta doesn't have eggs in it.

OspreyLambo · 29/09/2023 20:40

Rainbowsandrainclouds1 · 29/09/2023 18:57

They have to be available if asked for (cpuld be verbally given).

The managers attitude was shitty and the fried egg not being on the menu is a bit bizarre. But, the pub hasn't done anything wrong. OP should have checked the meal was vegan and not presumed.

@Stressedoutsinglemom

Restaurants only have a legal duty to provide an allergen list - there are 14 of them.
They don't have to accommodate anything else. Whether it's religion or veganism.
Of course most restaurants do it to prevent alienating their customers but really that's their choice!

If you think about it 'vegansim' isn't the only dietary option there are loads of others it would be silly to mandate that only specific ones were accommodated. Especially if it was just a choice. IMO it's good practice to have a full ingredient list anyway but to make it law's a bit too much,

Elvis1956 · 29/09/2023 20:43

Personally I can't stand the while vegan bullshit. It's not a diet that a human can live on without artificial supplements.

However the manage is wrong...what if you don't like eggs, or allergic...the menu is crap because 1 in 70 people are vegan in the UK (according to the BBC food programme) so you are excluding over 1% of your customers and as someone who owns bars/hospitality businesses...that's just stupid

Quartz2208 · 29/09/2023 20:44

diddl · 29/09/2023 19:33

a restaurant only ever lists the main constituents of a dish,

How is an egg on top not a main constituent?

Exactly that is the insanity of this.

if the op had assumed that it was dried pasta and fresh came out that would be on her.

but a fried egg I think is the third main ingredient to not list it is insane. Many non vegan would order the dish and be put off by an egg arrivibf

BIossomtoes · 29/09/2023 20:45

Elvis1956 · 29/09/2023 20:43

Personally I can't stand the while vegan bullshit. It's not a diet that a human can live on without artificial supplements.

However the manage is wrong...what if you don't like eggs, or allergic...the menu is crap because 1 in 70 people are vegan in the UK (according to the BBC food programme) so you are excluding over 1% of your customers and as someone who owns bars/hospitality businesses...that's just stupid

That’s odd. My son’s lived on it without supplements for the last 15 years. Just like whole tranches of the South Asian population.

plantsandwich · 29/09/2023 20:59

I've managed to live without supplements on it for 22 years. If I keel over anytime soon I'll stand corrected. I thrive rather than survive, I've become lazy recently but not too long ago I could bench press close to my own bodyweight.

As have whole tribes of people for whom it is tradition. Some people just like to make stuff up

Stepbystepfan · 29/09/2023 21:04

The manager is wrong but aside from that, an egg on pasta? That’s odd!

pollymere · 29/09/2023 21:09

No, this really annoys me too. If a place is pretentious enough to have ingredients lists then include them! I ordered a wrap that sounded delicious but when it arrived it was a beetroot wrap. I asked why and was told that's how it comes but no mention of this on the menu.

Now my child is heading towards being deathly allergic to beetroot. When I mentioned it was lucky he hadn't ordered it (he easily could've and we'd have realised and had to have sent it back), they defensively said we should've mentioned all allergens at the start 🤦‍♀️. We do if we think there's any chance an item might contain an allergen such as salad or veg crisps but on a cheese and ham wrap? Not so much!

Solonge · 29/09/2023 21:27

Manager a dick! First they need to use VE or veggie on menu, its the way the world works. Where in the pub/restaurant did it say ‘customers must inform us which foods they dont eat!’ Ludicrous! If I order a beef stew and it doesnt mention it has half a kilo of chillies in it I will be pretty pissed as its not what I ordered! No dish comes served with an egg that isnt listed!

Solonge · 29/09/2023 21:30

Or maybe the friend didnt want to flag their veganism because of the shit they often then have to deal with.

Birch101 · 29/09/2023 21:42

They both are
Every where we go we are asked if we have an allergies so not only should they have asked, your friend should have said I'm vegan.
Bloody annoying when all ingredients are not listed on a menu especially common allergens like eggs!!

Yourcatisnotsorry · 29/09/2023 21:49

Manager is wrong on many things. Most importantly who puts a fried egg on pasta?! Wtf!

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