Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

[iloverobbrydon]

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title.

There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this.

The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why.

The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat.

It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us.

You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

Yeah but not a fried egg on top of it??? Did you read the OP before trying to be a smartass? Also see I said “on pasta” not “in pasta”.

Not vegan, but I cannot abide eggs, and if they turn up unexpectedly in a dish I order it puts me off the whole thing.
As for checking whether the dish is vegan, if the manager's attitude is anything to go by, that wouldn't have gone well either. A few weeks ago I asked staff in a chip shop about whether certain items on the menu were vegetarian, and they went 'Er, no?', sniggering, as if I'd asked them if the battered cod was vegan. I heard them laughing about how ridiculous I was after I left the shop. Your Mr Fawlty sounds a bit like that, OP.

agree with @DrFoxtrot - while you'd think most vegans would double check before ordering, particularly when the menu wasn't labelled at all, nobody would expect a fried egg to come with pasta so the vegan thing is a red herring - even a non-vegan would be reasonable to send that back!

If it was a vegetarian burger that was served with, say, mayonnaise I might say the vegan was more (but still not wholly) at fault, because that is something that a) is a fairly normal accompaniment to a burger and b) is a sauce rather than a key component so it is more understandable it wouldn't be listed in a description of the dish.

Mrs Fawlty, actually, the OP states the manager was female.

"I mean, what if I just don't like eggs?? Should I go through every list of food that I don't like just in case it's in a meal but isn't mentioned in their ingredients?"

OP I would have been tempted to do this, and get everyone you were eating with to do it too, just to show how ridiculous the manager's argument was.

"Can I have the beef bourginion...it doesn't come with an egg on it does it?'
"Can I have another pint of cider please, but without an egg on it."
"Can I have the ice cream sundae for dessert but hold the egg." Or replace egg with a completely different random ingredient every time.
"Another glass of red, just checking it doesn't come with a salmon in it?"
"I'll have the pizza, does it come with whipped cream on top?"

🤣🤣 I am a vegan and I find this hilarious why on Earth is there a fried egg on a pasta dish? How revolting, even if you’re not vegan.

Unfunny side - egg is an allergen and must be listed as an ingredient! Terrible management.

The more I think about the fried egg pasta the more I want to try it, even though I know its disgusting and wrong.
Anyway, the manager is completely in the wrong here.

Just for a moment, simplify this scenario.

Forget about veganism, forget about allergens, forget about how weird it may seem to plonk a fried egg on top of tomato pasta, and how problematic not listing it could potentially be... it just seems like such a massive glaring omission from a description of an item on a restaurant menu.

As many pp have said, a list of allergens should be available, so if you don't/can't eat egg, it's up to you to ask. If you wouldn't order a pasta dish because there was a great big fried egg on it, you should be able to make that decision by reading the description.

I don't think I would ever expect a detailed list of every ingredient in a dish to appear on the menu, and if I wanted to know, I'd ask the waiting staff who could ask the chefs, BUT I would expect an entire fried egg to be listed!
It's weird that it wasn't listed and therefore the manager WBU.

I could absolutely eat that. I love an egg in a spicy South Asian noodle broth.

The lovely egg himself

If you want to restrict what you eat, then it's on you to check that the meal you're ordering is actually vegan.

Yes, lots of places indicate that a particular meal is vegan, but they don't have to so that's on you to check.

Isn't an Italian, or maybe elsewhere in europe thing to have an egg on pasta, they do it with Pizza too.

Ooh yes, I forgot about egg on pizza!

@isitshe that sounds lovely. This thread has inspired me to put fried egg on top of more things.

I think both parties are a bit in the wrong here.

You’re a bit in the wrong because I don’t think every possible ingredient can be listed on a menu in the same way as food packaging labels. Eg they should state if the pasta has a portion of egg on top or something that would trigger allergies, but they might not write that the pasta itself was made with egg or that the sauce itself contains dairy or rennet or whatever. They might just write “creamy tomato sauce” or “pesto dressing”

The manager is mainly in the wrong because their staff should check with you before taking your order. Everywhere I go out to eat asks if I have restrictions before they hand out the menus. the manager shouldn’t have shouted or caused an argument. Sounds like they were angry about wasting food but had a short term view vs long term

They were wrong an egg plonked on pasta is a significant ingredient and should have been mentioned in the ingredients.

Poor bloody vegan. What kind of fuckery is a fried egg appearing over a bowl of pasta. Also I expect to see the ingredients my dish is made from listed. So it’s definitely on the pub.

It would be normal for someone with specific dietary requirements to state that to the waiter. The waiter should ask but if they didn't I would be surprised so would look for positive confirmation.

I've never, ever been to a restaurant that lists every single ingredient of the dishes. It's entirely normal for a restaurant to describe a meal (e.g. pasta in a tomato, basil and olive sauce) and not list every other incredient.

Similarly, lots of restaurants don't have little letter codes next to food like a chain.

The people who are insisting that all restaurants must do all of the above are ridiculous. If you want a meal to ensure particular ingredients are absent, you tell the restaurant.

Manager more wrong as she was rude, should have just apologized and brought a new one, but should always state dietary requirements when eating out. My daughter's best friend has an allergy to one thing and I always mention it even when ordering a milkshake or something that won't contain it, but I like to make absolute sure.

Also surely you would need to check with them for the pasta anyway
Pasta is often made with egg.

Who puts a fried egg on pasta??

With one of the 14 allergens they really should be especially because a fried egg is a fairly big ingredient

food labelling laws haven’t quite hit packaging laws (Natasha’s law) but there is a campaign to do so (Owen’s Law)

given it isn’t a usual occurrence the lack of information about the egg is wrong. Most of us would order it and be surprised by the egg

Only fresh pasta!

The manager is correct. There is no law that says you have to list every ingredient for every meal. It's the responsibility of the customer to ask and check.