Page 10 | Who is in the wrong - vegan or manager?

iloverobbrydon · 2023-09-28T17:05:11+00:00

A group of friends go into a pub that do food. One of them is vegan. She looks at the menu and sees that there are no V or VE signs on the menu at all. Even for items that clearly veggie and vegan, the pub don't use the signs. However, they do list the ingredients and a description of the meal under the meal title. There are 2 or 3 vegan options. One of them is a pasta where the ingredients are listed as pasta, tomato, basil etc. And have a little description of the taste. No animal products listed at all so the vegan orders this. The meal comes out and it has a fried egg on top of it. The egg was not listed in the ingredients so she sent it back explaining why. The manager who took the order is not happy because she never actually said she was vegan and they arent mind readers. They come out and say if you can't eat certain foods then you need to tell the staff to make sure that those things are actually 100% ok for you to eat. It does escalate into a bit of an argument because the vegan is saying well if you list your ingredients then how am I to know that you only list some ingredients and not others? Where on your menu does it say how your menu works and that you won't list everything? That's just confusing. Either list everything or nothing. The manager is saying if you need a meal to not have an ingredient you need to tell us. You can probably work out which one I am but I didn't want to write it one sided, just wanted to explain the situation and ask who you think is in the wrong here?

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 21:08

Ididivfama · 28/09/2023 20:12

@5foot5 and if you hate egg you just need to accept it might be added to some random meal?

Well it sounds like it was more plonked on top as opposed to mixed in to the meal, therefore removable.

For example, I dislike gherkins and I find they are frequently added as a garnish to certain dishes. However, they are usually easy to spot and move out of harms way, so no biggy . It certainly doesn't spoil my meal.

Now if this egg was very drippy, or the yolk had burst and oozed over the rest of the dish I can very much see why the OP would be upset. But if it was a whole, intact fried egg it would not seem that difficult to remove it without it contaminating the rest of the dish.

OspreyLambo · 28/09/2023 21:08

Rainbowsandrainclouds1 · 28/09/2023 20:52

Its a bit odd that such a large ingredient was ommitted if the menu was written like that and the Manager was out ofnline to be rude.

But, if you have any kind of foor allergy, intolorence or ethic preference the onus is on you to let the restaurant know and double check. They arent mind readers and it isnt a requirment to list the ingredients on the menu.

For instance, a lots of fish dishes contain chicken stock in the sauce which can trip up pescatarians.

As an aside, restaurants don't even have to provide detailed ingredient lists. They only have to inform customers if it contains one of the 14 allergens. Unlike for pre-packed food.
https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/packaging-and-labelling

Many restaurants these days label vegan/vegetarian things but really they don't have to. So those with more 'exotic' diets have to be on guard. Of course it depends on how fussy you are.

I'm Hindu and don't eat beef but some desserts for example have gelatin and they just know it's not vegan - no info about the specific animal it was derived from. I'm not that strict, I'd eat it but more, erm, religious people than me find it a big problem.

OP being just vegan will have less of a problem, but a restaurant getting it wrong won't have done anything illegal. Catering correctly for vegans/vegetarians/ {insert non-allergen} here isn't a legal requirement.

Packaging and labelling

Legal requirements that you have to follow as a food business.

https://www.food.gov.uk/business-guidance/packaging-and-labelling

Quartz2208 · 28/09/2023 21:14

Exactly @OspreyLambo an egg is one of those

Maatandosiris · 28/09/2023 21:18

I’m vegan, I always ask for the allergen menu. It seems many restaurants don’t understand veganism.

I would have queried the pasta as it often has egg in it

Maatandosiris · 28/09/2023 21:22

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 21:08

Well it sounds like it was more plonked on top as opposed to mixed in to the meal, therefore removable.

For example, I dislike gherkins and I find they are frequently added as a garnish to certain dishes. However, they are usually easy to spot and move out of harms way, so no biggy . It certainly doesn't spoil my meal.

Now if this egg was very drippy, or the yolk had burst and oozed over the rest of the dish I can very much see why the OP would be upset. But if it was a whole, intact fried egg it would not seem that difficult to remove it without it contaminating the rest of the dish.

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For many vegans having food like this put in front of them would put them off, you would be able to taste the egg.

if you could some dead flies on top of your meal would you just brush the to the side?

Ellie1015 · 28/09/2023 21:23

Yanbu. I am not vegan, I like eggs, not a fan of fried eggs though and would not want it on pasta. So I would have sent it back too and for not nearly as important a reason.

I would not pay to eat pasta with a fried egg on it.

Restaurant unreasonable for inaccurate description of meal.

aurynne · 28/09/2023 21:27

Manager definitely in the wrong.

My boyfriend is not vegetrian or vegan, but he finds fried eggs revolting. He would not have been happy to find a fried egg on top of a pasta dish that didn't mention eggs.

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 21:29

if you could some dead flies on top of your meal would you just brush the to the side?

Hardly the same thing is it?

BIossomtoes · 28/09/2023 21:30

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 21:29

if you could some dead flies on top of your meal would you just brush the to the side?

Hardly the same thing is it?

It is to a vegan.

spanishviola · 28/09/2023 21:34

Who the hell puts a fried egg on top of pasta?

TheDogFosterer · 28/09/2023 21:43

Well it sounds like it was more plonked on top as opposed to mixed in to the meal, therefore removable.

For example, I dislike gherkins and I find they are frequently added as a garnish to certain dishes. However, they are usually easy to spot and move out of harms way, so no biggy . It certainly doesn't spoil my meal.

Now if this egg was very drippy, or the yolk had burst and oozed over the rest of the dish I can very much see why the OP would be upset. But if it was a whole, intact fried egg it would not seem that difficult to remove it without it contaminating the rest of the dish.

🙄 Do you have a moral/ethical objection to eating gherkins? No, you just don't like them and are happy to just remove them. Totally different.

But then you knew that and your original comment was dismissive and goady and are doing the faux naive act. How sad that you feel the need to do that.

MrsCarson · 28/09/2023 21:44

Manager is wrong, if you are listing the ingredients then they shouldn't just something else. I'd have sent it back too, I'm not vegan but don't like eggs and if I'd known it had an egg on top I'd ask for no egg. not that I eat the pasta as I'm gluten free

ohsuzannah · 28/09/2023 21:53

Wtf is an egg doing on pasta 🙄

Alstroemeria123 · 28/09/2023 22:02

MereDintofPandiculation · 28/09/2023 20:50

No, but pasta isn't of UK origin. And Uk restaurants aren't generally regarded as something for the rest of the world to aspire to.

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Well, if eggs with pasta and tomato sauce is something to aspire to I’ll stick to UK restaurants thank you.

I’ve eaten in countries with far worse restaurants than the UK anyway - I know it’s fashionable on here to think everything about the UK is crap, but it does get a bit tiring.

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 22:10

TheDogFosterer · 28/09/2023 21:43

Well it sounds like it was more plonked on top as opposed to mixed in to the meal, therefore removable.

For example, I dislike gherkins and I find they are frequently added as a garnish to certain dishes. However, they are usually easy to spot and move out of harms way, so no biggy . It certainly doesn't spoil my meal.

Now if this egg was very drippy, or the yolk had burst and oozed over the rest of the dish I can very much see why the OP would be upset. But if it was a whole, intact fried egg it would not seem that difficult to remove it without it contaminating the rest of the dish.

🙄 Do you have a moral/ethical objection to eating gherkins? No, you just don't like them and are happy to just remove them. Totally different.

But then you knew that and your original comment was dismissive and goady and are doing the faux naive act. How sad that you feel the need to do that.

The post you are quoting was actually in response to a comment by @Ididivfama who said:

if you hate egg you just need to accept it might be added to some random meal?

In this context only like/dislike was referenced, not moral /ethical issues.

No my original post was not meant to be goady or dismissive, nor do I believe I am being faux naive as you put it.

Believe it or not I have no agenda against vegetarians or vegans. I have family members who are both and, when they come for a meal, because I know about their choices I take great care to ensure I serve food that will fit the bill. Just as I do for other visitors with allergies and lactose intolerance.

But in this situation the OP chose a meal she had no real reason to believe would be strictly vegan. It came with an unexpected ingredient, but one which I genuinely believe she could have removed without it contaminating the rest of her meal. Nobody is suggesting she should have eaten the egg.

OspreyLambo · 28/09/2023 22:16

Alstroemeria123 · 28/09/2023 22:02

Well, if eggs with pasta and tomato sauce is something to aspire to I’ll stick to UK restaurants thank you.

I’ve eaten in countries with far worse restaurants than the UK anyway - I know it’s fashionable on here to think everything about the UK is crap, but it does get a bit tiring.

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I don't know what people mean when they say 'UK restaurants' though.
I find that standard chain Italians tend to do the same things Carbonara with the cream, Gamberoni, a simple tomato sauce pasta.
But Italian restaurants focusing on, say cuisine from a certain region do things much better!

One of the great things about the UK is if you live near a major city you can find authentic cuisine from almost any country alongside the 'Uk interpretation' variety. While in other countries, 'international' cuisine is somewhat limited.

I notice that pubs near me tend to do the same 'new' thing at the same time which makes me thinks it's whatever the Brakes Brothers have to offer at that moment in time. 'Korean Fried chicken', 'Nasi Goreng' or 'Panang Curry' for example and all taste very similar.

I wonder if this pasta episode was something reheated and the fried egg added to give it a veneer of exotism. I wouldn't expect a pub to be making pasta from scratch!

UnctuousUnicorns · 28/09/2023 22:17

5foot5 · 28/09/2023 21:08

Well it sounds like it was more plonked on top as opposed to mixed in to the meal, therefore removable.

For example, I dislike gherkins and I find they are frequently added as a garnish to certain dishes. However, they are usually easy to spot and move out of harms way, so no biggy . It certainly doesn't spoil my meal.

Now if this egg was very drippy, or the yolk had burst and oozed over the rest of the dish I can very much see why the OP would be upset. But if it was a whole, intact fried egg it would not seem that difficult to remove it without it contaminating the rest of the dish.

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Removing a disliked item from a food dish isn't the same as removing an item that is not eaten for - in the OP's case - ethical reasons. It really isn't. I can't stand olives, so would pick them out of e.g. a salad if possible. I'm vegetarian; if my salad was topped with an unexpected chicken breast, I would send it back.

I can only presume that the people spouting this nonsense are omnivores.

smallshinybutton · 28/09/2023 22:22

I had a curry once with a surprise boiled egg in it

TheDogFosterer · 28/09/2023 22:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ChocolateCakeOverspill · 28/09/2023 22:24

smallshinybutton · 28/09/2023 22:22

I had a curry once with a surprise boiled egg in it

I think that’s an actual ‘thing’ though isn’t it? An egg on pasta and sauce isn’t as far as I’m aware

TheDogFosterer · 28/09/2023 22:25

No my original post was not meant to be goady or dismissive, nor do I believe I am being faux naive as you put it.

Believe it or not I have no agenda against vegetarians or vegans.

Believe it or not? Not

TheDogFosterer · 28/09/2023 22:25

No my original post was not meant to be goady or dismissive, nor do I believe I am being faux naive as you put it.

Believe it or not I have no agenda against vegetarians or vegans.

Believe it or not? Not

smallshinybutton · 28/09/2023 22:26

ChocolateCakeOverspill · 28/09/2023 22:24

I think that’s an actual ‘thing’ though isn’t it? An egg on pasta and sauce isn’t as far as I’m aware

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It wasn't listed as with egg.

smallshinybutton · 28/09/2023 22:27

Did the menu say "unless stated otherwise all our dishes come with a fried egg"?

Does seem odd.

But still pasta is often made with egg so if someone can't or won't eat egg they need to take some sort of personal responsibility to make sure they aren't eating something they can't or won't eat.

inloveandmarried · 28/09/2023 22:28

PuddlesPityParty · 28/09/2023 18:12

I’m vegan and agree that it should’ve been on the menu… but wtf? Since when is egg on pasta. I’m almost thinking they don’t like vegans and heard her say it or something it’s that odd.

Egg is a common ingredient in enriched and fresh pasta.

The dried pasta is usually egg free.