Page 20 | Sycamore Gap - tree has been felled!

NepheliLoux · 2023-09-28T09:51:27+00:00

Looks like someone has deliberately felled the famous tree in Sycamore Gap. I can’t believe anyone would do such a thing. I don’t normally get emotional but this has really upset me. It’s absolutely irreplaceable.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 20:51

GoodOldEmmaNess · 28/09/2023 20:50

I reckon they had help from an elder.

Or a beech perhaps; there are billions of those around in the North East.

Love it

Mountaineer0009 · 28/09/2023 20:51

VisionsOfSplendour · 28/09/2023 20:50

Other than the actual photos showing a clean cut?

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The truth is out there

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 20:51

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 20:39

It is thought the sycamore was potentially introduced during the Roman era - as the Woodlands Trust will tell you. They didn’t become NATURALISED (very different thing) till 19th century, so yes, the tree could easily be 300 years old. Also, tree experts have assessed this tree and declared it to be such an age. Your husband, an architect, is not on the same level of expertise. Everyone, including the National Trust who will know this tree intimately, believe it to be around 300 years old. Forgive us if we don’t believe you and your husband.

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And, just to back this up @Bideshi, the Woodland Trust have, today, referred to it as an ancient tree and also called it so when it won tree of the year in 2016, and the Northumberland National Park who care for it said it’s over 200 years old. Weird attempt to diminish its age and status as an ancient tree.

Somethingsnappy · 28/09/2023 20:51

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 19:29

This is true. You would have thought Hadrian’s Wall would be safe but look at what’s going on with Stonehenge!

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Stonehenge is not within a national park.

Missingpresumedhidden · 28/09/2023 20:53

Bideshi · 28/09/2023 20:32

@@Willyoujustbequiet @Missingpresumedhidden
According to the Woodland Trust who are the authority on British Woodland trees, sycamore did not start to be naturalised until the middle of the 19th century. The first ones would have been in the vicinity of ornamental parkland, which this is not, so it would have been several generations later, say the 1890s and that's a generous timeframe for such a remote place. So the oldest that it could logically be is about 130 years old.
Additionally, old specimens of sycamore have a different bark; it becomes deeply fissured and develops platelets which I'm not seeing in the pictures of the felled trees. I'm also a horticultural professional, by the way.
I reiterate. My DH did the original survey and conservation plan for this section of the wall. Freelance landscape architect specialising in trees in landscape, and commissioned by the National Trust. That would have been in the 1990s and a tree survey was part of that conservation plan. He put the tree then at 60-70 years old which would have made it about 100 now. That looks about right to me considering the size and the status of the bark. Bear in mind that sycamore are very fast growing and early to mature.
However, this being MN, I'm sure you know better than the experts so I'm happy to go along with your superior knowledge. And whatever the age of the tree, this is an act of pointless vandalism. The tree can be cloned and replaced, but it's not really the same, is it?.

Ahh so in the space of a couple of posts you have gone from its 60 now to someone thought it was about 70 30 odd years ago. And I should believe you that it is newer than I know it to be because I have family members who can remember as a mature tree when they were kids in the 1930's OK.

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 20:53

Somethingsnappy · 28/09/2023 20:51

Stonehenge is not within a national park.

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No but it’s a UNESCO site and arguably our most famous historical site. Yet it’s under threat from development. Also, HS2 destroyed multiple protected sites including SSSI’s and important historical sites and findings. I get your point, but I don’t trust the ducking government one bit - I don’t think they had anything to do with the sycamore, but in general, nothing is sacred to them.

purplepencilcase · 28/09/2023 20:55

Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus · 28/09/2023 20:43

I don’t think a 16 year old could have done this by themselves.

I reckon they had help from an elder.

My husband, a farmer and v proficient on a chainsaw, said yes a 16 year old could do that without too much bother.

Bideshi · 28/09/2023 20:57

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 20:39

It is thought the sycamore was potentially introduced during the Roman era - as the Woodlands Trust will tell you. They didn’t become NATURALISED (very different thing) till 19th century, so yes, the tree could easily be 300 years old. Also, tree experts have assessed this tree and declared it to be such an age. Your husband, an architect, is not on the same level of expertise. Everyone, including the National Trust who will know this tree intimately, believe it to be around 300 years old. Forgive us if we don’t believe you and your husband.

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That's fine. He's a landscape architect, by the way. Specialises in landscape. and yes, he's a tree expert: his job. Funny about the National Trust because it's his expertise that they base their evidence on. But hey! you know better.
Dendrochronology will give us the answer before too long anyway. And in the great sweep of things it doesn't matter that much anyway and I'm not sure why people are so invested in the age of the thing. The point was the setting and the aesthetics, and that's what's gone.

AtmosAtmos · 28/09/2023 20:59

I can’t imagine development near the wall. It’s bleak, in National Parks land etc. Even if envisaged that imagine a house description a short walk from or with views of the famous Sycamore Gap.

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 21:00

Bideshi · 28/09/2023 20:57

That's fine. He's a landscape architect, by the way. Specialises in landscape. and yes, he's a tree expert: his job. Funny about the National Trust because it's his expertise that they base their evidence on. But hey! you know better.
Dendrochronology will give us the answer before too long anyway. And in the great sweep of things it doesn't matter that much anyway and I'm not sure why people are so invested in the age of the thing. The point was the setting and the aesthetics, and that's what's gone.

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Well the National Trust clearly haven’t listened to your husband because they, the Woodland Trust and the Northumberland National Park have all said it is older and an ancient tree. As have other multiple experts today.

And no, it’s not just about the setting and the aesthetics. It is also about the fact that another ancient tree has been lost. That has a symbolism all of its own. It is very important.

Fedupofballs · 28/09/2023 21:01

I don’t trust the government one bit, but I do have a hunch that there is a very low chance of them fighting to develop substantial infrastructure along Hadrians Wall to enable economic growth in the north.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 21:03

I mean, it just comes down to some (male) cunt being intentionally destructive for no other reason than he is a horrible person.

I'm nearby, and we can't even have a bench on a pavement without it being trashed. Swings get chopped down a week after they are hung. Glass smashed in new building windows. Everything graffitid. Everything pissed and shit on.

It's fucking exhausting.

AtmosAtmos · 28/09/2023 21:05

This thread has frankly become weird - aliens, arguing about the age of the tree (rings will presumably be counted) , could a 16 year old fell it (wait for the police investigation) or that a tree is not as important as a child.

An iconic tree, beloved of my area has been destroyed- just so sad

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 21:05

Fedupofballs · 28/09/2023 21:01

I don’t trust the government one bit, but I do have a hunch that there is a very low chance of them fighting to develop substantial infrastructure along Hadrians Wall to enable economic growth in the north.

The tree brings as many visitors to the north as the Wall does.

Show various people across the globe a photo of Hadrians Wall and a photo of Sycamore Gap and more people will recognise the tree in the Gap.

Kathsmum · 28/09/2023 21:05

Totally different argument but the government don’t care about the north. They think it ends at Birmingham so tired of hearing about another train line when we are still on a single carriageway major road with numerous deaths and closures every time.

However I’m upset about the tree and hope he realises a criminal record at 16 is just the start. We will not forget such a malicious act.

SirQuintusAureliusMaximus · 28/09/2023 21:06

Congrats to @Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus for managing to get quality black humour out of a terrible situation with

I don’t think a 16 year old could have done this by themselves.

I reckon they had help from an elder.

The Mail Online helpfully has a (not hugely informative) "how they could have done it" diagram

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/09/28/19/75949165-12571545-image-a-1_1695926061781.jpg

ThelmaBorden · 28/09/2023 21:08

DisquietintheRanks · 28/09/2023 11:02

No, not mindless. Its not so easy to cleanly fell such a large tree and you wouldn't just happen to find yourself up there with a chainsaw anyway. This was intentional and planned.

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this was murder

JANEY205 · 28/09/2023 21:09

What a twat! I hope they face legal action! Possibly criminal too. I wonder how they now it’s a young boy who did it? Was he stupid enough to post evidence?

Fedupofballs · 28/09/2023 21:09

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/09/2023 21:05

The tree brings as many visitors to the north as the Wall does.

Show various people across the globe a photo of Hadrians Wall and a photo of Sycamore Gap and more people will recognise the tree in the Gap.

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I forgot to quote ghostytoasty in my post talking about HS2 etc…

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 21:12

Fedupofballs · 28/09/2023 21:09

I forgot to quote ghostytoasty in my post talking about HS2 etc…

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I wasn’t saying they’re going to destroy Hadrians Wall. I was responding to another poster just saying that given what’s going on at Stonehenge I wouldn’t put anything past the government these days. It was just general chat!

Bideshi · 28/09/2023 21:12

Actually in my view it is about the aesthetics. In best practice for maintaining broadleaf woodland, sycamore are only left if they are exceptional mature trees (and then not always). They are regarded by arboriculturalists as weeds.
Rewilding projects regenerating wildwood do not plant sycamore or (usually) horse chestnut. Neither are native. The Woodland Trust does mention that sycamore may have been introduced by the Romans, but it also posits and alternative theory that its introduction dates from the 1500s.
Another ancient tree may have been lost, and it was in a beautiful position, but Northumberland's not exactly short of trees.

Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus · 28/09/2023 21:12

SirQuintusAureliusMaximus · 28/09/2023 21:06

Congrats to @Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus for managing to get quality black humour out of a terrible situation with

I don’t think a 16 year old could have done this by themselves.

I reckon they had help from an elder.

The Mail Online helpfully has a (not hugely informative) "how they could have done it" diagram

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/09/28/19/75949165-12571545-image-a-1_1695926061781.jpg

Well, whoever did it, they’re clearly not poplar.

Janieforever · 28/09/2023 21:13

JANEY205 · 28/09/2023 21:09

What a twat! I hope they face legal action! Possibly criminal too. I wonder how they now it’s a young boy who did it? Was he stupid enough to post evidence?

Either cctv showing him on the route to and back from it, or someone knows and has shopped him.

CatamaranViper · 28/09/2023 21:16

Kathsmum · 28/09/2023 21:05

Totally different argument but the government don’t care about the north. They think it ends at Birmingham so tired of hearing about another train line when we are still on a single carriageway major road with numerous deaths and closures every time.

However I’m upset about the tree and hope he realises a criminal record at 16 is just the start. We will not forget such a malicious act.

I do agree.
Just simple things like remember storm arwen which was largely ignored then suddenly a red warning for a storm hit down south and suddenly the whole country knew all about it? Whereas we had places up here without power for donkeys and so much destruction.

Ghostytoasty · 28/09/2023 21:16

Bideshi · 28/09/2023 21:12

Actually in my view it is about the aesthetics. In best practice for maintaining broadleaf woodland, sycamore are only left if they are exceptional mature trees (and then not always). They are regarded by arboriculturalists as weeds.
Rewilding projects regenerating wildwood do not plant sycamore or (usually) horse chestnut. Neither are native. The Woodland Trust does mention that sycamore may have been introduced by the Romans, but it also posits and alternative theory that its introduction dates from the 1500s.
Another ancient tree may have been lost, and it was in a beautiful position, but Northumberland's not exactly short of trees.

I’m well aware of what is and isn’t native and what is typically planted in rewilding as I’ve been involved in multiple projects. But it’s nothing to do with how many trees Northumberland has. It’s symbolic of the continuing loss of ancient trees due to mindless destruction. If you can’t understand that, that’s fine. But this is what it means to me and many others I work with within conservation. People are devastated. So maybe for you it’s just aesthetic, but for some of us it has a whole greater meaning.