School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

The unreasonable but was that this nonsense was ever funded in the first place!!!

Given that OP already said that over 80% of the pupils have English as a second language, and many of the parents speak little or no English at all, and that 40% of students are on FSM, most reasonable people would conclude that at least half of the children on FSM are from families with little or no English.

Its not necessarily just abused woves. My friend, her mum didnt speak much english. The dad owned a shop but presumably the mum didnt work there. Or outside the home. The dd had a scholarship for english. And it wasnt sexism either. But it was back in 90s. The dad died being older than the mum and she i assume struggled a bit without the language etc.
I think reasonable adju stment would be 1-2 families per school not this! In several languages. Its clear whichever communities there need to be more english speakers.
also i wouldnt expect parents eve to be translated at primary as its rarely that important. Imagine value vs costing yourself £150?
i do think sen meeting s though. However some of what is looking like sen at primary may well be struggle of a child with no home support for the work and having limited language in tbeir second language. Im sure the ks2 sats results were quite interesting showing the value of education.

i find speaking /listening harder so maybe written PE might be better?

Are there any schools in Wales where 80% of the children don’t speak Welsh, and the school pays indefinitely for interpreters?

Well the ones with no recourse to public funds have to, innit.

alot of schools in Wales, have children that don't speak Welsh. Lots of schools in Wales, teach in English

Ok, but we’re trying to compare that to a school where 80% of families don’t speak the native language, and have interpreters provided - where does that happen in Wales?

Yes, and I’m sure they all have well paid, legal jobs which don’t require English 🙄

So 40% of pupils attract PP; any idea of that 40% how many are from non-English speaking families? Perhaps if the PP is largely paid to children from deprived families who speak English, a fair proportion should be spent on them rather than for translation services for the people who refuse to learn the language of the home they have chosen?

And Welsh speaking schools in Wales, what do they do if they have a large influx of children and their parents who don't speak Welsh or English? I imagine it's very difficult to find interpreters who speak Somali/Ukrainian/Parsi or dozens of other languages and Welsh.

Yes workers rights are shit. However those guys are here of their own free will and most fly home for a month a year and then come back - so it can't be as comparatively bad as you like to insinuate.

TBH I think there are two separate issues.

YANBU to think that the head is being a bit overzealous with refusing to send out written communication in the other language especially if it is being created for other children anyway - if you have two Polish children where one has been there 3mo and one has been there 3 yrs, the letter is going to be translated for the 3mo student so the cost of an extra sheet of paper and a bit of toner to print the second letter for the 3yr student is negligible.

I would expect though that it would just be a regular template for the most common things eg trips/PE days/term info/annual events etc that are translated into other languages and it just provides the basic information of the event. Once the template is written all they have to do is change the specifics like the date/time for each event and attach the translated copy to the English copy.

However, YABU to expect the school to provide active translation services in meetings for families indefinitely at the school's expense. Having translation provided by the school for the first year means that anyone coming to the UK without a support network doesn't have to worry about understanding "technical English" when called into an important meeting about their child's education, but by limiting it to a year they set up a boundary as to what the school is willing to accommodate without it becoming the default that the school are the ones to source translation services. If a family needs translation after that first year then it is their responsibility to bring a translator - whether that is a professional they have paid, a friend who speaks both their native language and English or a member of school support staff that they know speaks their language and they have approached to ask of they'd be willing to support them in their meeting and is available.

I worked abroad in a Spanish school as an English teacher, my Spanish wasn't fantastic when I first moved there with ExDH (he was fluent and we moved out there primarily for his job) but I did not expect anyone to provide English translations as standard. When it was parents evening in my first year I asked the school if my HoD (no teaching responsibility so no meetings of her own) could sit in with me just in case of any translation difficulties but she only had to step in for a couple of meetings where there had been more complex issues in play that needed to be discussed.

Some places had English speakers who were happy to help when I had to do something beyond my language capabilities but for anything where I knew I needed proper translation - banking, medical, government forms etc - I initially paid for a professional translator if ExDH wasn't available and then as I was there longer (especially after ExDH moved back to the UK after our split) I would ask Spanish friends to come with me as my Spanish was pretty good and I just wanted someone there as a bit of support in case something needed explaining differently or if I had to read/sign anything (my spoken Spanish has always been far stronger than my reading/writing) so I could be sure I knew what it said.

I would never have expected an English translator to be provided as standard though a lot of ex-pats do - we had a set of parents one year who put their children in my school with zero Spanish, their children were struggling and the parents came in for a meeting. I had been there a few years so was fairly fluent by this point and happened to be the only English teacher free at the time so the Head (who had a decent grasp of English) asked me to sit in the meeting to translate, so I did and it was immediately obvious that the parents had no Spanish beyond "Hello/Goodbye/can we order two beers please?"

Initially I expected that they were recent immigrants so I was willing to cut them some slack but it turned out that they had been in the country longer than I had! The only difference was that they worked for a private English company that worked entirely in English; who also provided housing in a gated complex, which was full of their other English employees in their company housing; sorted all the admin out for their employees as part of their relocation package eg setting up bank accounts, residence paperwork, health insurance etc; and paid for their children's education which usually meant the children went to the local international school that taught entirely in English so their entire network - work and social - was English expats. They had no "need" to learn Spanish so they just didn't ... they were very surprised when I came into the meeting and after having a brief exchange in rapid Spanish with the headteacher about some other admin turned to them and introduced myself with a broad northern English accent as they assumed I was Spanish because "they could never learn Spanish that well"

Wales is a country where both Welsh and English are spoken. It is perfectly fine to move to Wales and speak English unless you move into one of the majority Welsh speaking areas, in which case it would be polite to learn to speak a bit of Welsh.

So 40% of pupils attract PP; any idea of that 40% how many are from non-English speaking families?

I'm very willing to be corrected on this, but would be absolutely amazed if those figures are available - at least publicly

IME the usual response to such enquiries is that "the data isn't recorded in that way", probably because of the sensitivities involved

Having seen your update OP that is shocking. What’s the cost in adding an extra email when it’s already done? It just seems punitive. Small amount of time to do that. I thought you meant paying for verbal translations.

DisquietintheRanks I think Welsh is a bit different in that it is only just now building back up. Up until fairly recently very few people spoke it. Children didn’t learn it in school. It’s not really a useful comparison IMHO.

It obviously depends on the demographics of the area. There are a ton of native english speakers at my local lycée international.

Given that 80% of children come from families with other primary languages, and 40% of children in the school are on FSM, I think we can calculate that at least half of the children attracting PP are those from non- English speaking families?

I'm hosting 2 Ukrainian refugees both no English on arrival. Both have learned enough that the child passed 11+ exam and she works. No expensive translation services involved.

Husband moved a lot as a child with Dad's work. He speaks fluent Spanish, Punjabi and French.

Interpretation services just support continuing helplessness. There are loads of online language lessons and speaking with locals is the fastest way to learn

That's not true. I have friends who grew up in wales and learned Welsh throughout school. They have GCSEs in Welsh language.
They are in their late 30s now.

Plenty of time to learn if you want to

I paid £40 of NHS money to get a letter translated into French recently. Just imagine that cost repeatedly.... much better for the person to get lessons

Not funding interpreters and translators is a typical false economy though, especially in healthcare. Much better to pay £40 to keep people in touch with the health system than risk an outbreak of TB for instance.

I’m in total agreement that women that aren’t allowed to learn English is abuse. But this is why it’s important for these women to be able to communicate in some way with potentially the only professionals/people they speak to outside their family and community so they can speak up if they’re being abused and get the correct support. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many situations where the Mother has been being physically abused for years and isn’t able to inform anyone to get help because she hasn’t been allowed to learn English. It’s only when neighbours have called the police and the women have been in the safety of a police station with an interpreter that they’ve been able to disclose the abuse. If the schools and services that come into contact with families can provide interpreting services so they can communicate with them then they have way more chance of spotting abuse sooner.

Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many situations where the Mother has been being physically abused for years and isn’t able to inform anyone to get help because she hasn’t been allowed to learn English

So if you provide an interpreter they would be safe? But they can’t reach out to alternative services?

@CapturedLeprechaun could a compromise be that the letters are all published on the school parent portal.and so people can download in the specific language if they want it? That way anyone who needs has access. I agree it seems bonkers that if the templates exist and the letters are created, why not send them out