School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

Because it's quite a specialised skill to do it properly, despite what you might think.

Totally agree that anyone here should learn English.

However in practice it is easier said than done.

The local Ukrainians had a massive problem getting proper lessons. They weren't funded by government.

If they went onto universal credit they were automatically put on a compulsory course - but only if they were lucky and got a space - and they had to travel by bus to get there. And then it was stupid because there was no assessment of the level of English they were at so lots of them found themselves on a course which was too basic for them (and this blocking spaces for others who needed that course). They didn't learn anything.

Then if they got a job (which they were supposed to keep looking for due to universal credit) then immediately had to stop the course if it clashes with their job!

There weren't free classes available in the evenings. There were paid for ones but you had to travel by bus to get to them. And the last bus went before they finished. If you were on minimum wage, how could you afford the class, the bus and a taxi back?

This didn't take into account people who couldn't attend the classes because they had small children either - which was many of the Ukrainians did.

But I also think £150 a time for a translator is ridiculous. The schools / government would be better investing in free very localised lessons with childcare as part of that in the evenings instead of paying for constant translation. Just to improve accessibility. It would be money better spent.

My experience of trying to help Ukrainians learn English led me to the conclusion that we aren't set up to facilitate people learning English. And then we complain that they don't.

As a rule our attitude to languages and learning them in this country is appalling. It could be argued that an 'unwillingnrss' to learn is indeed integrating into British society because that's what we do ourselves...

Couldn’t agree more.
I find it baffling how casually people mention that some women probably just aren’t allowed to learn English.
In my eyes it’s abuse and it makes those women so vulnerable. Hiring an interpreter doesn’t solve the actual issue here.

I'm working in the gulf at the moment. Countries here have no benefits system, no schools or hospitals - everything has to be paid for but there are no taxes and millions of people are moving in from all over. They arrest beggars and put them on a plane back to their home country. If they have multiple beggars from one town, they won't issue visas for entry to anyone from that town.

You can't live here unless you pass chest X rays, blood tests and hand over your finger prints.

It's the safest place I've ever been. I can walk around at 1am by myself and feel totally safe.

Seriously tempting to not go back to the UK in the long term.

Agree with this

Are you living in a luxurious high rise block of flats by any chance? Better ask yourself who built it, how much they were paid, how many of them were injured while working and weren't able to pay medical bills, and how many died building it, and where they are now if you think you're living in utopia.

Also... have you learned the language?

How much French or German did you learn in one year at school? Enough to understand complicated SEN meetings?

I think there is somewhere between not learning any native language (English expats in Spain for example) and still not being able to communicate effectively after one year. And yes there is the need to discuss funding sources, but it is not as simple as saying just learn English.

removing the translator's isolates them further

The parents don’t always learn English because they don’t need to in their community because mostly where they’d spend time everyone would speak their language

But they do need English, as the school issue described by OP shows. Either English or interpreters.
I am an immigrant myself and I know the type of community living you describe, where people manage to navigate everything in their own language without needing to learn the local one.
I just don’t think it’s right, not long term.
I’m sure it can be helpful and reassuring for new arrivals, but at some point it’s important to at least try to integrate.

I lived abroad and children went to local schools. We all learnt the language. No translators available in schools, hospitals, GPs or local government offices. We were there for a fixed term but expected to speak the language.

I would agree with the school, it would be a lovely thing of course, but schools have to constantly prioritise and even companies use google translate.

Also... have you learned the language?

Tbf the language in places like Dubai is pretty much English - UAE citizens are only about 15% of the population and English is the common language so it's genuinely hard to actually practice convesational Arabic on a day to day basis.

That being said, if I were going to live there long-term I'd still attempt to learn it.

Because to ‘tackle it’ would undoubtedly lead to accusations of racism and xenophobia.

See also: the Rotherham grooming gang fiasco.

It’s too difficult and no one will try because, not unreasonably, they’re not willing to risk their own careers and lives for it.

what are you on about? loads of people are working to 'tackle' it. EFFECTIVELY. It won't be tackled by with holding translated school letters

I agree with the school's decision.

I have a French friend who is a secondary school science teacher at a school in France. Some of the older years have their science classes taught in English. This is nothing to do with inability to speak French though, almost all the students are French. It's partly to prepare them for science at university, where they will need English and partly to cement English learning.

They might have difficulty accessing free English lessons, but it has never been easier to learn English, or any other language you care to name, than it is now. There are loads of free resources available online.

How much French or German did you learn in one year at school?

There's a difference between two or three lessons a week delivered by a non-native speaker, not even over a full calendar year, and living in the country where you see the language all around you (going to the supermarket, you see the words for basic foodstuffs), hear it spoken all around you, and can engage in conversation with people who speak the language.

I was on holiday in Wales this summer. Even in a week, if one pays attention to signs and announcements in Welsh, one begins to acquire a vocabulary. We weren't in a predominantly Welsh speaking area, so didn't hear Welsh spoken very much.

How do people who don't understand English know how to apply for a school place, and know where and when to turn up for the first day?

I've never said I think it should be accepted. It's extremely poor form for people to move abroad and not at least try integrate - whoever / whichever direction the move is in. They should be trying to integrate, not expecting all public services to fund their lack of local language skills.

I agree with this. We have similar and it costs a fortune. A line need to be drawn somewhere and a year and the offer of English classes is a good one. European countries do not offer this and any translation required is funded by the parents, not the school.

And providing translated letters or a translator isn’t helping either.

Do you believe these abused women are a recent phenomenon? I am not British but grew up here and can promise this has been going on for years. Has it got much better?

Fsm was extended to people with no recourse to public funds afaik

Can I just point out that
Translator - written word
Interpreter - spoken word
Quite difference in skills needed there

So now we’re assuming that people who cannot speak English are able to work and earn enough to support a family, paying London rental prices, with no assistance from low or no wage benefits? Bit of a reach…