School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

At the risk of getting piled on. I think I agree this is the right move

I agree...
After being in England for 5 years a basic knowledge of some English is always helpful, the longer a translater is used the more it will be expected.

It’s a tricky one but if I moved to a non English speaking country I would consider my duty as a parent to learn the language. There is also google translate, which isn’t perfect but good enough. Also, once you are settled in a new country you are likely to have made contacts who speak both your language and the native language. I do think, given funding issues, it’s the right decision.

I think creating standard written materials in different languages is a good idea as once done they need little adjustment. Including information about the second language policy and local places to learn English? If it’s clear that translators are only provided for a year and parents are given advice about other options, I feel ok about it.

If certain children are then being disadvantaged and constantly miss out then I guess that can be addressed and further support out in on an ad hoc basis?

I agree with the decision. I can’t imagine being in a country for five years and no learning the language! This will hopefully force the parents to learn the language of the country they live in.

I have the same view on brits who retire to Spain and never learn any Spanish!! Etc.

There's not enough sen provision for our kids as it is so why should more money be spent on translators for those parents of sen children who don't know any English.??

That last para is not strictly correct.

You certainly do need to demonstrate proficiency in French to obtain citizenship, you don’t need to demonstrate proficiency to hold a residency permit that allows you to simply live here.

However you’ll struggle with the officialdom and paperwork required for either course of action if your French isn’t functional.

Th school offers English lessons and if parents dont want to take them up or other opportunities to learn English then tough. they should at least make the effort to get the basics.

We are hosting Ukranian refugees. when they came their EnglisH was limited to Hello and thank you. 16 months later the now 15 year got a 5 in his GCSE English and geography mock and a 9 in maths plus 7 in science . his mum sits and does all his home work with him and can engage in quite lengthy conversations including parents evening although she used an app for bits of it. i hear them night after night repeating sentences and words in first Ukrainian then English.. I find lists of words in both languages. they go to local shops and if they don't know a word for something they ask..

Conversely I know a woman who has lived here for about 25 years and can barely speak a word of English and seems she can't be bothered to try.

school have to make decisions about where their budgets go and what they need most and translation for people who've lived here for years and can't be bothered is probably low down the list

If the parents can't be arsed to learn enough English to get by after being here for (at least) a year then they should hire a translator themselves if they need one.

Schools should teach in English and communication with parents should be in English. Maybe braille and sign language should be options where appropriate but there should be no translations into other languages.

Translation services after a year will cost an absolute fortune!

YABU.

Who should be funding this?

Yes - reasonable decision

Completely agree with you.

Those who want to make the effort do so- those that don't- why shovel money at them if they can't be bothered?

I’ve worked as legal secretary where our clients were Korean and Iranian.

If you move to another country you should learn the language.

A close friend of mine at college who was a Vietnamese bust refugee as a child (parents were Chinese and Vietnamese). Even now still she translates for them. It’s a huge problem because children end up translating and migrant groups often integrate into their own communities and make no effort to learn their home country language.

I'm a foreigner.

So you don't expect people who come to settle in the UK to learn English?

I got to be honest with you. Translating school communications into other languages enables scores of families (and I'm assuming housebound mums) to never assimilate into society. In fact, more should be probably done to help them integrate.

This is ridiculous. The parents should learn English.....or learn how to use google translate....

@Andnowtowhatcomesnext wrote:
It’s a tricky one but if I moved to a non English speaking country I would consider my duty as a parent to learn the language. There is also google translate, which isn’t perfect but good enough.

I'm sure you mean it when you say that you would consider it your duty to learn the local language if you moved abroad. The reality is, though, that a great many Brits who do move abroad aren't particularly great at assimilating and learning languages.

And unless you have experience of using Google Translate for translating English to the (unknown) language the OP is talking about, how can you know it is "good enough"?

For instance, I tried using Google to translate my last paragraph from English to Bengali (to pick a language at random) and back again. The result was
"And if you don't have experience using Google Translate to translate English to an unknown language like the OP is talking about, how do you know it's 'good enough'?"
This is close, but different enough to cause confusion. I don't want to translate to an unknown language. What would be the point in that? I want to translate to the specific language the OP is referring to, which is known by the parents she's referring to. I just don't know which language that is.

The problem is when you translate into and then back tbf. I just translated that into my native language and it's fine. And we are not particularly famous language people learn🙈

Integration can be really hard though. My DB made a short film about Walthamstow which has a high Indian migrant population. A lot of the women featured wanted to learn English but were either scared, had integrated into their community too much, felt they couldn’t get jobs as they weren’t white etc. They did do craft classes in the area from my recollection with an English teacher which as I recall helped with their confidence in learning and practising English.

The key for me is the amount of support already available - English classes provided by the school, apps, etc. - and that if parents choose not to utilise these it's a matter for them

TBH providing them at all can be a barrier to learning/integration, though the translators still being in place for the first year is probably sensible, and of course it creates expectations that "someone else" will pick up the pieces rather than folk taking responsibility for themselves

Overall it seems more positive than negative, and while you'll no doubt get complaints to start with it could be a real benefit to all in the end

So the most common first languages at our school are Arabic/ Urdu / Farsi / Pashto / Polish / Romanian.

These languages already have templates of letters written for most occasions. For example, if it's a class trip letter, all the basics are already translated and saved in a template "Your child has a class trip, coach will leave at 9am and return at 3pm. They need to bring a packed lunch in a disposable carrier bag, they can wear their own clothes and need a coat and wellies, cost is X and needs to be paid by X date", so the school office send this template via email, just changing the day of the week/month, which again, is a pre-translated list and they copy and paste this in.

How it currently works is there is an email mailing list for each language. So the letter goes to everyone in English, then you attach a Pashto letter and send to the Pashto mailing list, attach the Urdu letter and send to the Urdu mailing list etc etc.

This system will still remain, but after a child has been at the school for a year, their parents name are being removed from that language mailing list. So the school will still have a copy of the Arabic letter, which will go the Arabic families who have been at the school for less than a year. The Arabic speaking families who have been at the school for more than a year are purposely being removed from the mailing list.

It seems so counterintuitive to me. The head's argument is "they need to learn English, it doesn't help them if we keep providing it in their language after a year". But I think it's the kids who will suffer, and I don't see the harm in keeping these parents on the mailing list so they still receive it in their home language, if the letter is literally already written!

@CapturedLeprechaun can you explain why you believe it’s hugely detrimental to children, to have their parents not understand what’s going on.

But also why you think that responsibility and cost should fall solely to the school?

Where is the parents responsibility? They are showing they can’t put their child needs first? Something is hugely detrimental to their child and they aren’t doing anything about it. What does the school do?

This, with big brass knobs on.

yeah, that's just him being an asshole, then. please make an issue of it as Governor

If we went to live in France I am sure the school would expect parents to be able to speak French or, if not, get someone in to help them understand

I agree with the school. What about homework, reading books sent home? Do they just not get done if the parent can't help the child?

The parents should know English. Anyone thinking of emigrating to any country should either already have a grasp of the language or be in the process of learning.

and poster keep saying that parents should learn English after being here for 2/3/5 years or whatever. this asshole is removing the translated letters after SIX MONTHS.

Parents who value their children's education will make the effort to support it and will surmount the language barriers to do so. Don't confuse speaking a different language with indifference or with other cultural barriers or differences eg not valuing physical education for girls.