School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

The fastest way to learn a language isn't classes- it's to be immersed in it.

If these parents haven't bothered to learn English to at least conversational level after several years of living in the UK then that's on them, particularly if the school is offering free lessons. It suggests zero attempts at integration.

I’m with you OP, this doesn’t sit right with me either.

I completely understand about budgets but this doesn’t sound to me like it’s driven solely by cost.

If it is, I would ask what other options are being explored and if they are going to have a clearly defined policy about when they would fund translation for parents who’ve been here longer than a year? Will they provide a translator when they’re trying to discuss SENCO, behavioural issues or low level safeguarding concerns? What about at the beginning of a child’s school career when they’re explaining the rules, will they at least provide written translated material? What do other schools with similar demographics do? If it’s an area with multiple schools like this, could they share some costs e.g. use the same printed materials but change the logo or split the call off cost of a telephone translation service? If they want to push parents to learn English, will they work with the LA to offer classes on site (e.g. provide a classroom after school finishes)?

A policy change like this needs really careful consideration and the knock on effects need to be fully assessed too. If teachers are put under huge stress or feel unable to deliver/keep their children safe, they may leave. If children aren’t able to get the support they need or engage with learning (e.g. have a PE kit, go on trips, in class on time, etc), OFSTED will notice that and it could affect the school’s rating. It will also affect the sense of community and parent engagement at the school.

Ultimately, the children and their education will suffer for their parent’s language skills. The school needs to make an effort to mitigate that impact, within the budget they have.

Yes of course. But I am talking about one specific group of poorly-paid workers. I know corporate asian people who go and work there in banks etc.

I lived in the UK as a migrant for 10 years. Seriously, UK has to toughen up. If people do not understand basics after 5 years.... well it is their own problem. School is already supporting parents but they are too comfortable. They need to adapt to the country they live in, not the school adapting to the parents. Seriously, please toughen up a bit, it is good to help of course, it is very hard when you do not speak the language but people manage, there are lots of things parents can do to understand what is being said. And what about children? They could translate to their parents. Honestly, Britain will be doomed if it continues like this

I think it’s acceptable not to provide a translation service in these situations. Google and other applications are available that won’t drain school resources. Many English children go to international schools, they seem to adapt and learn the language quickly. Not sure if translation service is provided for their parents?

Very reasonable.

My husband lived in France and they didn't provide translations for anything at all.

I did already cover this in a follow up post! You can filter by OP posts to see all posts an OP has gone to check if there has been answers to other questions.

The translation phone line is £1 a minute. Last year £1.5K was spent on this service. But the majority of translating is done through support staff coming to meetings with parents to translate.

As I said, the school receives pupil premium funding of over £300K per year to support their free school meals/pupil premium pupils. In my eyes, translating services are a good use of this money, because it helps the vulnerable children if the parents can understand.

There was an exclusion meeting held for a child who was being excluded. Mum was Polish, we have plenty of polish speaking support staff at the school who could have translated, I think it's vital that a parent understands the reason their child has been excluded from a school and has a chance to ask questions etc. The head refused to use staff or pay for translating services for the meeting, mum didn't bring a translator, I don't think she had a clue what was happening.

I just think a zero tolerance approach for "no translators after a year" doesn't feel right. Exclusion meetings, discussing SEN needs etc are all complex, and not something parents may understand after a year of learning English.

Yes but the op isn't talking about translating a post grad thesis or detailed banking letters, it's things like "your child needs to bring their pe kit"

I speak 2 languages that are a bit hit and miss on Google translate but it's certainly enough to get the gist pretty much every time.

And ultimately all of these support features should be an intermediate stop gap while at least one person in the family prioritises getting a sufficient grasp of the language of the country they live in. A year of translation is very generous, most people can pick up a fair amount of a language in a year it they take learning it seriously.

Surely it is up to the parents to make sure that they learn the language?

They are usually many places where you can take ESOL classes for free or at a low cost.

I think the school has already gone above and beyond and their resources should be focused on the children's education, not the parents.

Would that be partly because the nearest English speaking school is too far away - pupils often have to travel a far distance to get to any school in remote islands.
Some folk also don't realise how widely Gaelic is spoken in the Western Isles.

Can you imagine having to have leaflets/information in about 40plus languages? Do you know how much it costs to have a personal letter translated? It really isn't feasible to do so. I'm sorry but there has to be a cut off point. I interviewed a number of people who had been resident in the UK for over 20 years and still spoke little English. They lived in a community where it didn't matter as all business was kept in that community, but when accessing services in the public sector I had to have an interpreter. The problem is that having a family member providing the service on an ad hoc basis does not guarantee a literal translation as would be the case when using a service. I also found that when we speak English we often use terms that translate poorly; they are commonly used expressions but the meaning is lost. Again a skilled interpreter can do that, a family member might not get it.
It really is a minefield and I was aware that inefficient translation might cause legal issues.

It's not just corporate who get called and call themselves expats. "expat" is normally used terms in newspapers here. "indian expats fly back with favourite rice brands amid export ban" etc. "Filipina expat won 25kAED" and so on.

I am surprised at £1 a minute cost for the interpretation services tbh

Ok I was on the head's side until I read this. If Polish speaking staff are available at no additional cost to the school, this feels more about xenophobia than it does about budget.

The school was providing far more than European schools do to newcomers, whatever their native language including English. You’re expected to communicate in the language of the school. ( I got told off by a bank employee when I as very stressed and was trying to cancel my lost bank card and my new language deserted me. I was told to speak , you’re in now.
With technology, and the translation Apps being so easy to obtain and use, I think the school is being fair.

I agree OP. I've worked as an interpreter in the past and it is essential for important meetings. (Even after a lot of experience, it was difficult to know all the right vocab, so a beginner will not have much chance.) It's not enough that a parent has a vague idea of what is going on. Chances are that even someone with reasonable English as a second language in daily life for several years would not understand the details of SEN needs etc without help. The zero-tolerance approach is wrong.

Good for the school!

It's the duty and responsibility of us immigrants to learn the language and culture of our host culture. Those of us who don't deserve to be left behind. If you don't want to be left behind, go somewhere that speaks your native language.

Exactly. Many people use English as a lingua franca when abroad, not just Brits and Americans.

Exactly. Many people use English as a lingua franca when abroad, not just Brits and Americans.

I've often heard Europeans from different countries using English to communicate - including Spanish tourists in Portugal which slightly suprised me.

Unfortunately, schools have no money. It’s a choice between translators or teachers and the school’s first priority is to ensure that children are taught well. It’s what they’re assessed on through Ofsted, exams, etc. It can’t have been an easy decision but where there are choices that have to be made, this is one that’s harder to argue with.

It might ‘only’ be 1.5k on the translation line, but there’s the cost of translating and printing all those different letters and the associated staff time which does have a cost attached. If those polish staff are translating in meetings, who is covering their workload for that hour? Is it not getting done or is it an extra thing they then have to do?

its rubbish but schools are in a difficult position and at some point parental and personal responsibility has to kick in

@CapturedLeprechaun You are still in post and need to do your role, which is bring your views and experience to the table. You don’t need to fight a fight, but at least record your concerns. I totally understand your fatigue in the role. Just keep going until Christmas and raise your concern, with the very valid and real reasons you’ve raised here. You can see in this thread the kind of opinion these families and children are subject to, just stick up for them one more time. There is no understanding about why a family or single mother will be away from the country of their mother tongue in the first place (might not be their choice), and what might have prevented them learning the language in their first year, like trauma or abuse. These children are a part of our society now, and whilst there might not be the budget, speak up for what is best for them whilst you are in post.

Agree with this post

I acknowledge that there are many differences - for one thing, every teacher at my child's school is capable of speaking English, so there are no direct financial costs to the school in providing bilingual communications. They don't have to pay for translation, though of course there are costs in terms of staff time. Also, at least in Y3-Y6 classes, English is one of the languages the school teaches (albeit the language of the school is Welsh).

I'm not saying that the school in the OP is wrong to want to reduce translation costs, just that my own situation makes me more sympathetic with the parents who don't speak English, as I can well imagine their difficulties. My experience certainly makes me less inclined to take the view that parents who've been here a year should speak decent English. I've been in a Welsh-speaking community for a decade or more, and my language skills are rudimentary at best.

Perhaps the OP's school could find cheaper ways to support parents with poor English to access events and communicate with staff, short of employing professional translators. For example, could the PTA coordinate volunteers from the school community to translate?