School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

If I was going to live in another country I would make sure I was doing everything I could to learn that language.
I think the changes are fair
it gives them a year of support while they learn the language
id be happy ,very happy with that support in a foreign country

who the hell can become fluent in a language in 6 months whilst working and taking care of a family

Just on the back of this for people saying it’s harder for foreigners to learn eg English.

My DM attended a German speaking class which had a spin off practice class.

There was a mixture of English and also Pakistani/Indian pupils. One was an older Indian English woman (second generation) who works as the local pharmacist, the other is a retired Indian English man who’s lived in London for years and worked (I think retired pharmacist). The third was a young (approx 30 years) old professional man, Pakistani origin but brought up in London. He had a girlfriend living in Germany who he visited a lot. The others had I think either relatives or intermarriage hence the reason to learn German to communicate.

If these people (their English was perfect by the way and two were both here) can try to learn eg German then so can other migrants/immigrants.

Translation services are being removed after a year, not six months. This could mean the child/family has been in the UK 2, 3, 8, 10 or more years - how long do taxpayers have to continue funding adults to not integrate in the place they’ve chosen to live? Do you think any other country anywhere would provide free English translation for adults who choose to live somewhere but want that place to change and pay to accommodate them?

You don't need to be "fluent" to communicate. You start with basic english, and you build up.

You will never become fluent if you don't start with 5, 10, 100 words first.

This is so difficult. It must be so expensive and it is a reasonable expectation that parents will have learnt basic English within a year of being there. However, many won't (and there may be reasons for this) and the children will then suffer when it's not their fault.
Are there classes for parents to attend locally, that they can be directed to? Could classes be started in the school itself, perhaps by volunteers?
Also, google translate can really help for short phrases.

Who the hell can work in the UK and claim benefits without speaking English?

I used to teach EFL, and once looked at volunteering to teach refugees/asylum seekers. However I never actually applied, after realising that it was all going to be one-to-one for women in their own homes, since ‘for cultural reasons’ the women didn’t want to attend classes, not even if they were women-only.
TBH I read that as probably husbands not wanting (or allowing) them to go out.

I never actually applied, since other issues aside, I didn’t like one-to-one anyway - it can be hard going. I’d always taught classes.

Since then however I have done one to one at home (gratis) with an Eritrean Muslim woman introduced privately, but not because she didn’t want to attend classes. On the contrary, she did that too, and was very keen to improve so that she could get a job. Which she since has.

it could. or they might have been here for one year. they might have been here for one year, after fleeing their own country because of war.

the letters are already written and saved on the system. it takes a real cunt to remove parents from the mailing list, because 'they should learn English, then'

If you move to another country with a different language, you should learn that language.

Here in Germany, if you come from outside the EU, continued residency is dependent upon either demonstrating sufficient language proficiency or attending an integration course (paid for by the state) to get you to that level. Of course there are exemptions for people who cannot learn the language due to a disability, for example.

Seems fair to me. Support people in learning, don’t support people in continuing not to learn.

You don’t need to be fluent to have a basic understanding of a language. Perhaps the FREE English lessons, provided both in the morning or evening, might help?

Are these teachers who happen to speak a second language getting paid for translating or are they expected to provide this service for free on top of everything else they have to do.

Speaking as someone here who's first language is not English.

why do you assume that they are claiming benefits?

If you put the effort in, you learn. I worked with a Polish woman in her mid 20s who was studying and working, to be an architect and had moved to London. We kept on saying to her if you don’t learn English then you won’t be able to be properly qualified etc. So she socialised with us more at work, eg lunches out and pub socials and her English speaking skills improved. Then she took proper classes to improve her written and reading English. She didn’t want to learn and had lots of Polish friends in London but realised it was better for her generally. We also had other nationalities who spoke English working in our office at the time who encouraged her.

It's the lesser of many evils.

A year is a long time being resident in country to get your head around a language. Lots of apps out there ro assist too.

School is doing right thing.

I wonder if all the countries abroad that DON'T provide any translation/interpreting services actually have better or worse outcomes for immigrants to their country? I would guess that some people fall through the cracks but overall more people learn the local language and benefit from that. I wonder if there's any research into it though.

I heard on Radio 4 recently about recent immigrants/asylum seekers to Germany have to have lessons on the cultural expectations living in Germany and can't claim public money/assistance without attending these.

You certainly do need to demonstrate proficiency in French to obtain citizenship, you don’t need to demonstrate proficiency to hold a residency permit that allows you to simply live here.

Most residence permits do have language as a requirement - either to speak to a particular level or take a mandated number of hours of classes.

Really good point. You can also scan a document and it will translate.

Honestly OP translators are extraordinarily expensive.

I think they're doing the right thing.

I think they have no choice because of funding,the parents also have access to classes for free to learn English
Where I live people send their children to Welsh school when they don't speak or understand a word of it themselves,how on earth are they supposed to help and support their children's learning.

Michael Rosen said something in Facebook today that resonated with this thread: "A lot of talk this morning about multiculturalism means that some people don't 'integrate'. That suggests there is some single thing that 'others' have to integrate WITH. I've been trying to do it the other way round: working our how I can integrate with multiculturalism."

This is really difficult and I do understand your feelings. But ultimately I do think we need to be encouraging immigrants to learn English - we have ended up with sort of ‘ghettos’ in major cities where everyone from one culture/language clumps together and makes no attempt to assimilate, and I don’t think it’s good for social cohesion and fosters resentment and ultimately contributes to xenophobia. And I do think if you move to a country the responsibility should be on you to learn the language so you are not an extra drain on resources.

It sounds like the school has been making provision with the English classes - what is the uptake of those?

Ultimately it sounds like the letters wouldn’t be any skin off their nose and those should probably continue. But the translators for parents evenings - no. That should be down to the parents to bring a responsible adult (NOT the child for heavens sake) to translate for them. I think two years would be a more reasonable cut off point though.

The extra funding for pupils on FSM should be used for enrichment activities for them. Trips, tutors, music lessons etc.
Thats what it’s supposed to be for - to provide opportunities they wouldn’t otherwise have because they come from low income families. Not because their parents can’t be bothered to learn English.

I agree with this.
I wouldn't be happy if something else got cut to carry on funding translators when the parents have had plenty of opportunity to learn English.

No, this is NOT a reasonable decision at all, and yes, it does smack of xenophobia, just as a shocking number of replies on this thread do.

Yes, you should raise it, formally, in a well attended meeting that is documented. I would also highlight very firmly what you have articulated here, that most form letters already exist and would just be a matter of changing a date/time/location and the cost being paid for telephone translation services is minimal compared to the additional funding the school receives.

It's not xenophobia to expect people to acquire at least a conversation level of the language of the country they live in after they've been here for a period of time unless there are extenuating circumstances like age or disabilities.