School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

I think this is quite probably very true.

Google translate is pretty good for text, and yes if they have lived here 12 months they should have either some grasp of English, or friends/family that can translate. So I think it's reasonable.

I suspect the school would still provide if there was a serious issue and parents were refusing to engage help or hadn't understood they needed to.

The school is being reasonable. New translation technology is generally brilliant. What would be very helpful in my experience is drop in coffee morning type sessions rather than language lessons. This builds community and allows parents to ask questions about school in an informal way. Navigating a foreign system can be very draining and confusing. Support is needed but translating everything won't necessarily provide it.

Confused by people saying that Brits wouldn’t move abroad and put their kids into schools where they don’t speak the language… Brits do this all the time, even within their own country

And you know that schools follow LA guidance when referring non-attendance over. The LA has the final say on whether a fine is applied or not and any income goes to the LA, not the school. So fines from your school would be applied in accordance with LA policy, consistently across all their schools, of not on the whim of a head.

YABU. My DP’s have lived in France and Spain. No free translation services in either country, even for hospital appointments. If you want a translator you have to pay for one.

This. There are other options. It seems fair given they must be under financial pressure, and better money spent on teaching

skyfalldown I agree but sometimes a shove is what’s needed, though I can see the child having to translate for the parent (s) who won’t learn.

The school is making the right decision imo.

Don’t we criticise English people who reside in Spain and refuse to learn Spanish

I think translations for everything beyond a year is indeed just enabling incompetence. I’m a foreigner and never in a million years would I have dreamt that the school should accommodate. Moreover, I think it should be 100% main requirement to receive any sort of state benefits or help. I also have a property in France and same applies there - no way French would have even given a free years worth of translators. There’s Google translate, there are courses available etc. yes their parents might be illiterate but children pick up the language very quickly and can translate. We had lots of Ukrainian children in our school who picked up a decent level pf speaking within a year.

Funding and resources are under immense pressure . You say some families have lived here 5 or more years and still speak no English. Surely it is in their children’s interest for them to learn the language. I have lived abroad for a few years and had to learn the language , I wouldn’t expect a translator to be provided . There are free courses , apps etc to learn languages, maybe they should be made aware of these? You say you offer free language classes weekly?
Maybe parents who speak various languages should be asked to volunteer to translate if needed ?
I would rather see the stretched funding spent on resources in the classrooms for all children.

I wonder what are the countries were British expats go to drain local school resources? Expats go to work or have retiree visas. If you send your kids to international school those are private. Usually those parents only move there temporarily for work. Very different situation. They are not taking away from the budgets of those schools.

You do know that Asians in ME don't do just low paid exploited jobs, do you.
I said they "call themselves that". If you go on chat boards people do very often say "I am x expat" no matter what job they have. Obviously as with any, not all will use it, but many, many do.
The newspapers also call everyone expat. "Filipina expat" "Pakistani expat" and so on.

Yes, if the school provides opportunities for parents to learn English, they should. If you want to live in a country, you should be able to speak the language. Why does this make you uncomfortable?

I'm in France, you are required to learn and demonstrate that you can converse in French if you wish to live here. Lessons are provided by the State.

Interesting timing on this post, so soon after Braverman’s speech about integration.

Same. Well we lived there twice. Once in a communauté à facilité (ie Dutch speaking but had to speak French)… never again. You could cut the atmosphere like a knife during the elections. The second time we lived in an expat area, where no one was obliged to speak French. I insisted being in an expat area after the first experience.

I agree no one bothered to learn the language. But there are 3 official languages, albeit 2 main, so that’s hard in itself. Of the 3 official languages the only one I couldn’t speak was Dutch so I used to speak French in the French areas to the people in the shops but quickly realised it was a faux pas to speak French in the shops as they responded to me in Dutch. All good as the accent and language is so similar to German I could understand. In fact I struggled to learn Dutch as the similarities to German were too close.

We didn’t have dd at the time. My gut would have been to send her to Dutch speaking school for the languages as the French speaking schools were just French (idk if I’d have followed through dh being French and all) but the company would have paid the schooling had we wanted to send dd to a British school. And that’s the thing. If your kids go there for secondary, you want continuity of learning, especially if a move happens every 2-4 years, which is common.

Yes, I was going to say the same. The reliability of Google Translate is pretty high for the big languages and main European languages, but pretty terrible, and no audio feature, for a lot of other languages. Hopefully a system of parent volunteers could work instead? But I agree, these days schools don't have the budget for expensive translation services for years on end.

You are right- they don't. We have friends in France and the Netherlands and Norway. None had translators provided when they moved. They learned bits of the language as quickly as they could .

The extent to which Britain mollycoddles people- including people born here- is ridiculous. We've given two whole generations, from about 1990 onwards, the idea that they are not responsible for themselves and the State will provide, pay for services.

A parent complained to me (at work) this week that the reason her son is late for school/misses so much school is his minibus (an experiment by his school to see if it can collect non-attenders and get them in)is often early and he is still in bed. He is not disabled, has no SEN just refuses to get out of bed. She lives a 10 minute walk from school. I asked why she doesn't taken him herself- she has a car and doesn't work- and she said 'He won't get in the car if he doesn't want to. Anyway, that's what the minibus is for and it's often 10 minutes early so it's not his fault if he has to walk round'. I wanted to say he shouldn't have a minibus life, that he didn't attend for years before the school provided the minibus, that she should make sure he's up and ready in good time, that she should drive him or walk him herself (he's 13) that they are both idle CFs who will spend their whole lives as a drain on the State but I like my job so shut up.

I think it is ridiculous that a school is paying for a translator. School should ensure that it can communicate in the official languages (which for England is English, and Wales would be Welsh and English). Every time a translator is required money is being taken from the children.
if people require a translator they should take their own.
in fact I would be deeply uncomfortable if at my children’s school (very diverse) funding would be spent on this

C8H10N4O2 on holiday for a couple of weeks , a bit different living somewhere for years .I found it hard to pick up a language until I moved to an different country and was hearing it constantly over a few months.

It's ok for others often too with small mistakes that can usually be solved by the context. I used it often. Google lense translates text from pictures etc as well so that's a bonus of just scanning a letter.

Live in the UK learn English, my friend's recently moved to France and has weekly classes, she wouldn't expect a translator. We've made life far too easy for people in this country some times you just have to get off your arse and put the work in.

I can’t speak for Wales but it’s not unheard of for families to move to the Western Isles and put their kids into schools where Gaelic is the majority spoken language when they themselves don’t speak a word of it