School refusing to provide translator

[CapturedLeprechaun]

I'm on the Governing body for a school with a really high proportion of kids with English as a second language. It's over 80% of their pupils. Many of the parents speak little or no English at all. There are some families who have been here 5+ years where one or both parents speak no English at all still, and even a "your child has no PE kit, they need to wear their PE kit on Mondays and Wednesdays" wouldn't be understood.

The school always use translators for meetings with parents - either a staff member who speaks that language who is available, or else they have a telephone translator service that they pay for, so the phone is on loudspeaker and a translator translates the conversation.

This is done for all parents evenings/ attendance meetings/ SENCO meetings etc for parents who don't speak or understand English.

Important letters like school trips/consent forms are provided translated in the three most common languages spoken.

The school offers English classes to parents, one held in the school one morning a week in the hall, one held in the evening each week.

School has now said translators will only be provided to parents whose children have been at the school for less than a year. If your child has been at the school for more than a year and you are unable to understand English, no translator will be provided, due to staff shortages and costs, and you have to bring a friend/family member who can translate. Letters will only be provided in English, and parents can use the translate feature on google if they need to.

On the face of this, does this seem a reasonable decision? The head has announced this and I don't know why it doesn't sit right with me, and I can't really articulate why. It has a lot of support from the English speaking parents, but it feels... divisive, I guess? And most likely children who will suffer. Currently trying to weigh up whether this is something I should raise, or accept this is a reasonable step for the school to take.

Right, that will be why after years of language lessons several times a week most Brits struggle to ask about the weather in the language they have learned whilst on holiday.

I often see the ‘temporary’ term being used. Many poor workers from the Indian subcontinent go to the middle east for a few years to earn money for their families. They are treated appallingly, exploited, made to work for a pittance in the heat, and then when they finally manage to get their passports back they return to their country of origin in India, Bangladesh etc. Of course they are never called ex-pats.

The definition you give, is much narrower. A specific term to describe a short sponsored and paid period of time to work in a foreign country. Which is fine. The issue is that it’s used now for any British person who goes to a foreign country to stay there and find a job. Just like any other economic immigrant. Yet they get called ex-pats, which irritates me hugely.

thanks for your reply.

To live in this country and not speak English is ridiculous and unfair on your family and everyone else, so I think it's a reasonable measure. Also, what jobs can they do for their own well being to get them out and also to contribute towards society. Personally, I'd want to speak/understand some/all of another country's language if I moved abroad as I'd want to understand what was going on around me, make friends.

My lovely friend came here for an arranged marriage, she didn't speak any English. Her husband helped her (his English was limited as he'd come from a different country) and four years later she could manage, some things she didn't quite understand but she was able to ask. It can be done. Moving forward they both totally understand and speak English.

Why are these parents not being able to integrate? Learning the basic of the local language is the minimum. Providing translators is wrong. It will only perpetuate this situation.

Are we expected to received people in this situation in huge numbers? I suspect yes and it will not end up well.

I live in another European country and I can assure you they never provide a translator....you take a friend or bring your own translator. That goes for everything including doctors and court cases.

It’s easy for everyone to get whirled up, but essentially the schools remit is to the teach the students. If the school is 80% of children from a specific country, I would expect from the 80% of parents you could find 1, that’s right just one parent, who could sign up to translate for all others, this could be easily managed by a whatsapp group, so have the non-English speakers updated in this way instead of letters/meetings. I think it would be interesting for the OP to ask the headteacher for his reasons, rather than siting exclusion, xenophobia or racism, surely this will be budget-related?

It's not about being reasonable. It's about funding.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief at most of these comments. If you voted for austerity, then you chose this. And not just once, but in election after election. If you have sat back while the opposition has been in chaos and navel-gazing while all of the debate about everything has happened in the austerity party, then you chose this. School officials cannot even provide safe buildings let alone extra services.

There's no sense of responsibility in the UK. People literally chose the chaos we're dealing with now and yet so many commenters are blaming other things. No, this is about voters' decisions and gullibility.

I am glad that I work in a country which has interpreting services in the NHS. There is no way I could provide good clinical care to many patients in London without them. And there is no way I would use a family
member when talking about some of the more sensitive issues around self-harm, sexual abuse etc.

Regardless of what other countries do, I could not be without this service. in healthcare, it’s vital. Without decent targeted medical treatment, this group could place a bigger ‘burden’ on the NHS long-term. Ideally yes, everyone would speak passable English. But it’s not achievable for many.

Just this week I saw a man who needed an interpreter. He has been here for three years after escaping horrific torture in Iran. He came here in his late fifties, and whilst he can say please and thank you etc, it’s unrealistic that he will become fluent in English any time soon. I still want him to receive good care.

It used to be "migrant" if you were moving around to find jobs or just temporarily, however, that is now used bit differently... So many use "expat" nowadays (not just British). I think it also depends on country of residemce on how it's used.
Immigrant is permanent move with intention to stay as far as I was taught, but that may have changed too now.

Tbf I have never thought of the retirees as "immigrants" because I always thought it was a temporary move for some years only with the plan to return back to native country later. Hence the use of expat rather than emigrant.

Exactly! This would drive me to pick up my phrasebook and get stuck in (as many Europeans would). I sense there are other cultural norms here that aren’t being discussed as they are sensitive. I have no real interest in delving into them, but this notion that the UK should foot translation bills is highly flawed. I wouldn’t expect to have a translator laid on for me in another country, so why would the reverse be true? Would that mean that other countries refusing me a translator are also racist? Hmmmmm.

If the parents were putting the needs of the kids first, then they would learn the language.

Why is the needs of the child the priority when talking about schools. What about the parents responsibility to put the kids needs first?

Surely if the parents can’t promise the kids basic needs, that needs looking at itself.

'Most Brits' do not , as adults, attend years of language classes. 'Most Brits' take little notice of language clsses whilst at school because they find them dull and irrelevent.

But that's exactly my point. Most Brits don't bother to learn another language ever. They think the world speaks English. If, later in life, they go off to live in Benidorm, they live in ex-pat colonies where they go toBritish bars, cafes, shops.They go for the weather and isolate themselves, on the whole, to their small group.

However, younger people with children who went to live in another country would find themselves learning the language because they would mix, work, shop, their children would learn it. They'd make a life there. I'm not saying they'd be fluent but they'd learn enough to get by- as would most younger people who came to the UK to start a life.

This is a cultural/control issue.

All European countries do provide translation and many others outside the EU

This would be my expectation if I moved to another country - with or without children.

@ZippedTop they do call themselves expats in ME. Not just Brits.
"I am x expat". I see it used all the time even when they are job searching, etc. Again, I think it goes with the change of use of "migrant" - temporary immigrant.

Not being able to ask about the weather while in holiday isn't really comparable to making no effort to learn the language your child is educated in though. Surely you can see that?
I can definitely ask what the weather is like in my main second language, and make a good go at a few others - though mostly ones with the same characters (plus a few) as English.

YABU. If I moved to to another country I'd learn the language, or at the very least use a translation app. This is pandering to those who just can't be arsed, when money should be spent elsewhere.

I 100% agree with the school. They have helped as much as they can. If you haven't learnt enough English to get by in a year then that's a you problem not a school problem. They have gone above any beyond. There are multiple avenues to help those with English as a second language to learn it and get help that don't cost the schools a fortune. Hell they can get help from other parents in the school who speak English.

I hated languages at school, but always wished I was more interested in them. As an adult I decided to change that and now love learning one language in particular (and have dabbled in a few others). I don't know if I am brave enough to try one with completely new characters for any length of time though - I started some Yiddish, but it sounds a lot like German, despite having completely new characters!

No they don’t.

Theres plenty of people posting backing up that they don’t.

I am led to believe that each phone translation costs in the region of £200 per call it would be more for the NHS. If the school are giving English lessons they are helping the families a lot.

Really? I have never heard low-paid Asian exploited construction workers in Dubai being called ex-pats. I stand corrected then.

Not sure the languages they are fluent in, but has anyone suggested Duolingo app to any of them? It's far from perfect but if they have internet and a phone/tablet/laptop/access to a device then they could do that free of charge?
There is the option to learn English from a large range of languages including Bengali, Hindi, Arabic, Ukranian, a whole plethora of other European languages, Yiddish and so on.....

Op, if you are a school governor you know the answer to this. The school can't afford it. I'm amazed they have been able to fund this level of support in the past.

Would you be able to share what this cost last year? I'm sure it's an easily identified line on your end of year outturn report (which before anyone jumps in is not confidential and should be a document supporting public minutes).

Your school has been generous tbh. We have a similar EAL population and I'm amazed to hear your translation services were only 1500, ours were thousands more. We took this approach last year, it's not easy but it was necessary. We have also stopped our offer of English lessons as no one applied last year and there are lots of other free lessons available in our city (not london). We benefit from being able to use the language line ad hoc when needed and several bilingual teachers. I hate pushing the onus onto the children but when we are having conversations about making staff redundant to pay for an essential boiler repair We had to cut everything else first (spoiler alert still can't pay for unexpected expenses this half term). It's a nightmare for those trying to budget within school at the moment.