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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Refusing to pay tradesmen

131 replies

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:01

DH is a tradesman and has finished job. The customer is refusing to pay and it's quite obvious now that this was always his intention. He has admitted that there is no problem with the work but he can't afford it and never could but it needed doing. DH is out ££££ on materials and paying his employees.

I'm just so sick of tradespeople being treated like this, you wouldn't believe how common it is. There is basically no chance of him ever seeing that money.

How would you like to go to work for a week and then have your company say that they've decided not to pay you? Please do not hire someone if you can't pay them.

OP posts:
Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 27/09/2023 20:37

OP your husband needs a signed engagement document before undertaking any work. If there is a contract in place, stage payments, and photo evidence of completion, he has to sue the homeowner. A strongly worded letter from a solicitor (we used a standard one) can often do the job. If you show real intent, plus you’ve got all the evidence, dated, which you present, most people buckle. Those that don’t, you take action.

Surely there is room for trade bodies to offer legal protection to trades people?

Original poster
Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 20:38

Palmasailor · 27/09/2023 20:10

It doesn’t matter that they’re worthless.

the real problem is your dp doesn’t want the confrontation.

trust me. Go back and start taking it apart. See what happens

as me how I know.

Show quote history

He is not scared of confrontation. But turning up to a property where the person has already made threats to do things like harm themself and say DH attacked them and trying to remove the work is not going to end well. I've suggested a bodycam in any future conversations he has in person or in writing is better.

OP posts:
rhino12345 · 27/09/2023 20:39

My dad is a music teacher and I've helped him a couple of times with ones who don't pay.

There's a template you can download online for threatening court action. Very reliable as they usually panic after they've received that to their address!

Bailiffs - we've had to use them once. It was costly but it was a family who'd racked up thousands of pounds of bills and not paid (he also sourced instruments and tunes pianos etc)

Just keep phoning them. Time consuming but if you're relentless enough they will just give in. Even asking if they can do installments here and there.

There are other more extreme things you can do 😂 but the above tend to work quite well

Mygosh · 27/09/2023 20:40

Don't try to remove work! It counts as criminal damage.

Original poster
Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 20:40

Feeling a lot better about his prospects of getting paid after reading all of the suggestions on this thread.

It's just you hear so many stories similar to the ones people are sharing here of people who never see a penny it's heartbreaking.

OP posts:
Vettrianofan · 27/09/2023 20:42

That's incredible that he doesn't charge a deposit. Kitchen fitter charged us around 70% upfront payment then we settled the rest on completion of work. This was all in writing before work started though.

CurlsandCurves · 27/09/2023 20:48

Poppysmom22 · 27/09/2023 19:58

This made me laugh not at you op but at the number of people who say on any trades thread that no decent tradie should expect payment upfront for materials or otherwise the. Say the exAct opposite here. People who do this are complete scum sadly there's no recourse other than legal action.

Absolutely! I’ve seen it so many times on here. ‘They want a deposit? Avoid like the plague, OP’

FWIW DH was a sole trader for almost 20 years. I can count on one hand the amount of jobs that were big enough in terms of cash flow that he had to ask for a deposit for materials. He always traded with you only pay in full when you’re happy with the job. And this is not unusual in our part of the country.

He’s been close to this situation once or twice. And was prepared to go in and remove the work done. Didn’t matter whether it was of any worth once removed, it was the principle.

IClaudine · 27/09/2023 20:49

It maybe varies throughout the UK? I have never paid anything upfront. In fact, one of the tradespeople I use told me never to do so when I mentioned the possibility. But I have paid an installment halfway through the job in some cases.

Sorry this happened to your DH, OP. I hope you find a way to get the money back. At least the customer can't do a runner or dissolve their business!

Palmasailor · 27/09/2023 20:56

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 20:38

He is not scared of confrontation. But turning up to a property where the person has already made threats to do things like harm themself and say DH attacked them and trying to remove the work is not going to end well. I've suggested a bodycam in any future conversations he has in person or in writing is better.

Show quote history

Well, your dp was targetted by this “customer” because they thought they’d get away with it, ie dp wasn’t the type that would put up much of a fight.

there are plenty on builders you just couldn’t pull that shit with and no one would try, so the “customer” avoided those.

its a pro knocker and he’s been down this road and knows the route and you’ll never get paid with or without court.

write it off.

Efficaciou5 · 27/09/2023 20:57

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:01

DH is a tradesman and has finished job. The customer is refusing to pay and it's quite obvious now that this was always his intention. He has admitted that there is no problem with the work but he can't afford it and never could but it needed doing. DH is out ££££ on materials and paying his employees.

I'm just so sick of tradespeople being treated like this, you wouldn't believe how common it is. There is basically no chance of him ever seeing that money.

How would you like to go to work for a week and then have your company say that they've decided not to pay you? Please do not hire someone if you can't pay them.

What you describe as obvious is of course subjective.

Are you sick of tradespeople being treated like this, or are you angry because your DH hasn't received money he believes he is owed ?

When you post something on a public form, how can you possibly know what others would or wouldn't believe ?

You've written your final paragraph as though it's directed at "the customer".

You're clearly quite angry and unfortunately, this is one of the few pitfalls of being self employed. However, the financial benefits generally far outweigh the negatives.

Efficaciou5 · 27/09/2023 21:06

Would it happen to have been a cash job OP, like the vast majority of "Tradesman" activities in the UK ?

If so, I can understand your frustration and the reluctance to pursue a more official channel. Otherwise you'd have a written quotation and order confirmation to refer to.

JudgeRudy · 27/09/2023 21:06

If your OH is pretty sure he won't get paid I'd be looking at another way for the customer to pay. I'd be quite prepared to name and shame....and plaster all over social media. I'd also be looking at what I could 'reasonably' reclaim in terms of materials.
I'd be fking raging!

bettytaghetti · 27/09/2023 21:08

Ofcourseshecan · 27/09/2023 19:19

Many thanks for posting this! We're on the other side, having paid someone in advance for some work. It's now almost 6 months and the litany of excuses for cancelling multiple times without any notice have been worthy of a MN troll medal for Make Believe!

JustFrustrated · 27/09/2023 21:09

Efficaciou5 · 27/09/2023 21:06

Would it happen to have been a cash job OP, like the vast majority of "Tradesman" activities in the UK ?

If so, I can understand your frustration and the reluctance to pursue a more official channel. Otherwise you'd have a written quotation and order confirmation to refer to.

So quick to be a dick you didn't even read the OPs subsequent post about invoices, estimated etc.

And actually, cash doesn't equal no tax payment. So don't be a dick.

I paid my decorator cash, he definitely pays his tax.

The plumber asked for cash, again, pays his tax..

Don't be a dick.

QuietDragon · 27/09/2023 21:18

Gymmum82 · 27/09/2023 19:36

Rip it all out and leave the property compromised. Not his problem is it. He can find the money if he doesn’t want it all ripped out

It would most definitely be his problem!

You can't break in and vandalize private property, unless you want to end up with a prison sentence.

Efficaciou5 · 27/09/2023 21:23

JustFrustrated · 27/09/2023 21:09

So quick to be a dick you didn't even read the OPs subsequent post about invoices, estimated etc.

And actually, cash doesn't equal no tax payment. So don't be a dick.

I paid my decorator cash, he definitely pays his tax.

The plumber asked for cash, again, pays his tax..

Don't be a dick.

Show quote history

Payment in cash is untraceable and can be dirty.
You've no idea how much income your decorator declares to HMRC.
You've also no idea how much income your plumber declares to HMRC.
One of my best friends is a plumber, and just like all of his tradesman friends declares about 1/5th of his earnings.

Those who are self employed pay far less National Insurance and income tax than those employed under PAYE, even on the income they do declare, and for those who take cash, it's an absolute free for all. For some reason it's brushed under the table in the UK, but hopefully not for much longer.

RudsyFarmer · 27/09/2023 21:24

Shame the fucker on social media.

Anothagoatthis · 27/09/2023 21:29

Greenberg2 · 27/09/2023 19:40

This.

I've been swindled by tradespeople and most people I know have experienced the same.

I've never known anyone start an expensive job without asking for money to cover the materials at least.

Show quote history

What’s happened to OPs husband is awful but I agree I often hear it the other way around. My own mum (single mother with immigrant accent) was treated so badly by many growing up. They saw her as an easy target with no man in the house.

It’s absolutely shocking that people would get someone in to do a job with no intention of paying though. How do they even justify it and sleep at night.

I had carpets fitted last year, as soon as the fitters left the apartment I transferred the money for carpet and fitting. The money probably hit the account before they even got in their van.

mommatoone · 27/09/2023 21:35

Sorry to hear this OP. I have experienced this and people take the piss. Like others have said, id turn up and tell them you will be taking the materials back (work thats been done) to recoup the cost because they HAVEN'T paid. Record it all and make sure you tell the cheeky bastard you are doing so.

TrainedByCats · 27/09/2023 21:52

I hope some of the suggestions here work.

Unfortunately it’s going to take additional time of his and cause stress that he can’t get compensated for.

redguitar123 · 27/09/2023 21:58

He must take him to court
And be a bit more professional about his business in the future. Even if only 3 days, if it's many thousands then he needs some of it up front.

Gymmum82 · 27/09/2023 21:59

QuietDragon · 27/09/2023 21:18

It would most definitely be his problem!

You can't break in and vandalize private property, unless you want to end up with a prison sentence.

Edited
Show quote history

Who said anything about breaking in? And removing work that hasn’t been paid for isn’t vandalism either. Once he knew he wouldn’t be paid he should have removed his work before he left. Nothing illegal in taking what is rightfully his

Soapyspuds · 27/09/2023 22:08

Can he go back and brick up their front door?

QuietDragon · 27/09/2023 22:30

Who said anything about breaking in? And removing work that hasn’t been paid for isn’t vandalism either. Once he knew he wouldn’t be paid he should have removed his work before he left. Nothing illegal in taking what is rightfully his

So you think an electrician, for e.g. can just walk in and start ripping wires out the walls, a glazer remove your windows or a builder pull your walls down?? Of course they can't, even if there is a dispute over payment.

They need to go through the right channels.

FeelInvisable · 27/09/2023 22:50

We had it the other way. Paid a builder. He didn't do the job and disappeared. Went to small
Claims court. Won. He didn't have the money. Went to court again to put a charge on his property. Won. Went to court again and got an order forcing a the sale of said property. We got our money back. If you persevere it can work in your favour.