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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Refusing to pay tradesmen

131 replies

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:01

DH is a tradesman and has finished job. The customer is refusing to pay and it's quite obvious now that this was always his intention. He has admitted that there is no problem with the work but he can't afford it and never could but it needed doing. DH is out ££££ on materials and paying his employees.

I'm just so sick of tradespeople being treated like this, you wouldn't believe how common it is. There is basically no chance of him ever seeing that money.

How would you like to go to work for a week and then have your company say that they've decided not to pay you? Please do not hire someone if you can't pay them.

OP posts:
TomatoSandwiches · 27/09/2023 19:15

The customer can lie all they like but if your husband has his evidence to the contrary the customer is not defendable.

Original poster
Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:15

I believe the job was expensive but didn't take longer than maybe 3 days, this is why staged payments probably weren't done. I know he will have taken a down payment but the outstanding invoice is significant

OP posts:
Hufflepods · 27/09/2023 19:15

Swings and roundabouts really. It’s incredibly easy for tradesmen to fold with basically no
liability and just start trading again the next day after fucking over their customers.
I lost about £15k from a shitty builder and there’s basically no recourse.

More accountability is needed to protect both sides.

Your husband really shouldn’t be working when he is happy to cover all the materials up front and not have a structured payment plan.

CassieRole · 27/09/2023 19:16

What are your terms and conditions? Do you have retention of title.
Send a 7 day letter, then small claims, move to enforcement and then appoint high court sheriff for recovery.

Only had to do it once in 15 years.

Ofcourseshecan · 27/09/2023 19:16

This is disgusting, OP. Lots of sympathy to you and DH. It enrages me that when people who have been robbed like this take (nonviolent but property-damaging) revenge, they’re the ones likely to be arrested.

Self-employed friends of mine have had good results with the small claims court and it wasn’t too time-consuming or difficult. So I recommend it to your DH.

Also, is there a local Facebook or Nextdoor group you could post on, or a trade group where you could warn other tradespeople.?

Best of luck.

Fahbeep · 27/09/2023 19:16

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:07

His materials cannot be removed without leaving the property seriously compromised so that's not a possibility. I believe small claims has a max of £5000 and this exceeds that. Also very hard for the trades to win if the customer spins a tale of lies.

Small claims limit is £10k. Each side bear there own costs if they behave reasonably. You have a good claim. If you get a judgment, give it to a bailiff to enforce.

Original poster
Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:18

Thanks everyone I will encourage small claims. I don't know the ins and outs of the situation but he has photos and contacts, invoices etc. It's just so frustrating that he has to go through this.

OP posts:
babysoupdragon2 · 27/09/2023 19:19

My husbands business had this experience once. We ended up starting small claims process and luckily the initial letter was enough to get payment sorted.

Since then all work is done with deposits
and stage payments. Be absolutely firm about this, no payment, no work.

Its disgusting how many people think that they can delay/negotiated/ just not pay because you're a tradesperson.

Grumpyold · 27/09/2023 19:21

I agree he needs to pursue it and stage payments are a good thing for bigger jobs, but I'm very reluctant to pay upfront or pay much of a deposit. The tradesman at least knows where to find me, I've got not hope at all if he does a runner with my deposit.

Neverknewidfindmyselfonhere · 27/09/2023 19:22

My brother is also a tradesman and he is owed £41k by a customer that refused to pay and even told the architect that they couldn't afford it all before they went ahead with the job. You can't remove any materials as it's trespass. There was nothing he could do as he can't afford the solicitors to pursue payment. They then went on to get more work done by other tradesmen and now have a beautiful home, that he has half paid for! Almost bankrupted him but he has had to just move on and try not to be bitter.

ChocolateCinderToffee · 27/09/2023 19:23

I don't know where you live, but where I am, in a large village, all the tradies know one another and if anyone did this, word would get about and nobody would do a single job for them, ever again.

Justlovedogs · 27/09/2023 19:26

Quite common, unfortunately. DH is a brickie/builder and it's the reason we always took a down payment to cover materials (he doesn't do very much private work these days). No payment = no work. At least if there were delays or issues with final bills, we weren't left owing others with the potential for legal action.
Unfortunately, the advice to people always seems to be don't pay up front, trades have accounts with suppliers, etc., which is all well and good but unscrupulous clients can and will drop you in it. Angry

saltinesandcoffeecups · 27/09/2023 19:27

If down payment isn’t standard… is an escrow account a possibility (is that thing in the UK?) in the future? If the final amount is more than the small claims threshold it would seem worth it. Protects both parties.

LindorDoubleChoc · 27/09/2023 19:27

I work for a small business that has grown out of a sole trading tradesman. We get surprisingly few non-payers. For any job that's going to take longer than a couple of hours we send a fully itemised estimate with every single darn thing listed (parts and labour).

Your dh should pursue this person through the small claims court, it's surprisingly easy and efficient.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/09/2023 19:27

Wifeoftrades · 27/09/2023 19:15

I believe the job was expensive but didn't take longer than maybe 3 days, this is why staged payments probably weren't done. I know he will have taken a down payment but the outstanding invoice is significant

Okay, so if it was only 3 days the £5k won't all be for labour and it looks as if the materials/whatever ordered were expensive

In which case it might have been an idea to request the £££ for them on delivery and before fitting, so that he could take them away again if the client pulled this horrible stunt

Ladyj84 · 27/09/2023 19:31

Then like 2 of all the self employed in our family you go back and remove everything and if they call the police you state the case.

SequinnedSilly · 27/09/2023 19:32

The court system is surprisingly effective in the majority of these cases so I urge you to go that way (family of sparkies and mechanics here, we regularly start proceedings but rarely need to get to the bailiff stage).

Ladyj84 · 27/09/2023 19:33

Oh and none of ours take payment up front either. Luckily in 40+ years there's only been those 2 non payers tho one did eventually cough up when the police said we had a right to remove fencing if he didn't pay

bigdecisionstomake · 27/09/2023 19:33

MCOL limit is £10,000 and is fairly straightforward to do without needing a solicitor. Lots of advice online including on the .gov.uk website. Even if the customer doesn't have the money to pay you can still register a CCJ against them which even though it doesn't pay the bills will have a bit of an impact on them in future potentially if they want to take out a credit card or a new mortgage for example. This scenario might also prompt them to pay the outstanding amount first to get the CCJ amended to settled status. There's also the option to enforce with bailiffs if you think they've got the money or have assets to cover the debt. If they have a job then an attachment of earnings is also a possibility. I would give it a go personally even if was just on principle.

Nosleepforthismum · 27/09/2023 19:33

Did he put steels in? That’s awful behaviour from the client. My DH is a builder and is currently going through something similar with a client who is refusing to pay the final invoice and is making up all sorts of rubbish to wriggle out of paying.

My DH’s dad owns a building company as well and he sends out a document to anyone who refuses payment which usually does the trick without having to go the legal route. I’ll ask him when he gets home tonight.

Gymmum82 · 27/09/2023 19:36

Rip it all out and leave the property compromised. Not his problem is it. He can find the money if he doesn’t want it all ripped out

FloweryName · 27/09/2023 19:39

If everything was done correctly then there’s no reason why your DH shouldn’t go to court and win what he is owed including legal expenses. He could take it all the way to making this person bankrupt if no payment is made. It’s shit and frustrating for you but it’s just an inevitable part of owing your own business.

I don’t suppose it will offer any comfort, but there are far more customers screwed over by tradesmen than there are tradesmen screwed over by customers.

FOJN · 27/09/2023 19:40

Completing a small claims application is fairly straight forward if you take care to complete it properly. You can also charge interest on the outstanding amount.

You need to send a letter before action if you intend to proceed through the courts, there are templates online or you could get a solicitor to send one which may carry more weight.

IANAL but I have done this once.

Greenberg2 · 27/09/2023 19:40

Hufflepods · 27/09/2023 19:15

Swings and roundabouts really. It’s incredibly easy for tradesmen to fold with basically no
liability and just start trading again the next day after fucking over their customers.
I lost about £15k from a shitty builder and there’s basically no recourse.

More accountability is needed to protect both sides.

Your husband really shouldn’t be working when he is happy to cover all the materials up front and not have a structured payment plan.

This.

I've been swindled by tradespeople and most people I know have experienced the same.

I've never known anyone start an expensive job without asking for money to cover the materials at least.