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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Adult brother needs to leave

72 replies

Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 00:19

Hi all
My family are at a crossroads with my younger brother.
He is 30 now and diagnosed with ADHD and depression. My mum also has ADHD. He lives at home, I do not. I (34) have a close relationship with both parents and have moved nearer to them since having DD, so I am more involved than I was a few years ago.

The issue is, he is causing so much stress for my parents that they cannot handle having him at the house anymore. They want him to move out but are stuck for options. Both parents are in their early 60s.

They have tried:
Social services - he ignored contact at first then told social services that he wasn't that bad and didn't need help. He cannot get supported living or any other help unless he works with them, which he refuses to.

Moving him out on his own (paid for by parents): he got evicted due to the state of the flat, the smell and mould it caused. Ended up with a huge bill to my parents so he cannot be trusted living alone.

Moving him into a granny annexe: he padlocks the door, treats it like a bin and doesn't come out for days on end. When he does come out, he sometimes emerges with a months load of dirty washing and tells my mum to clean his room. I have seen it, it is up to your ankles in rubbish. He does not shower, brush his teeth or look after himself in any way. This is the current situation.

My parents can't handle it. The constant worry about him, picking up after him etc. on top of it, he is incredibly rude, argumentative and manipulative about everything. He insults my mum and points out all her flaws. He thinks she is out to get him. My mum is very sweet and constantly thinks of others, I have never heard her say a bad word about anyone.

My mum is in bits constantly about this. She is in remission from stage 3 cancer and is now developing severe hives from stress. He shows no empathy towards her or regard for her feelings.

My brother has private mental health care, therapy and a psychiatrist, yet doesn't go to appointments and makes excuses not to. They had a therapist visit the house a few times, he wouldn't open his bedroom door.

At this point I'm considering telling my parents to just kick him out with a few grand and leave him be. Bad idea and I don't even know what would happen to him, that's the scary part. :(

They have even suggested giving money to me and DP so we can buy a larger house and have him with us! My answer was no.

Other than that all I can think of is sectioning him, is that even a thing? They have looked into residential care but it is £1000 a night! Is there somewhere that takes mentally Ill people and houses them even if they don't want to go? Or would he be homeless?

I am completely stumped on what advice to offer to them! My parents are tearing their hair out and I'm the one hearing their worries constantly. I just want them to be happy.

Any tips?

I love my brother, he is a good friend to me. I have no doubt he has severe mental health issues which affect his behaviour but it cannot go on like this. Other people matter in the family and I want my parents to be able to enjoy these years.

OP posts:
shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 00:33

That’s tough to read OP.

Any alcohol or drug issues?

What about his level of education and job history?

EmmaEmerald · 26/09/2023 00:38

Lots to unpack here but how long has he been like this?

it's interesting that you say he is a good friend to you, but he treats your parents badly.

ThinWomansBrain · 26/09/2023 00:40

can they not gibe him notice to leave?
I assume he'd then become homeless and council would have to find emergency housing.

shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 00:42

A 30-year-old single man is not likely to get housed, I don’t think.

Original poster
Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 00:46

shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 00:33

That’s tough to read OP.

Any alcohol or drug issues?

What about his level of education and job history?

Hi. No alcohol, just huge amounts of junk food and weed.
He dropped out of uni twice and has recently failed a business course. He lied about completing the course until my parents found out on results day.
He does not work due to his ADHD but will not claim benefits or work with social services. He has worked in the past and has always either been fired for low attendance or just left because he doesn't like it. Months go by between getting another job. He hasn't worked since Christmas

OP posts:
latenightprep · 26/09/2023 00:46

If they tell him he has to leave (in writing, so he can proove that he is homeless) then he can apply to the council for housing.

But I think the problem probably lies with your parents not wanting to do anything like this. My heart goes out to you, I think the only thing you can try to do is try to convince your parents to be tougher with him.

Original poster
Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 00:48

EmmaEmerald · 26/09/2023 00:38

Lots to unpack here but how long has he been like this?

it's interesting that you say he is a good friend to you, but he treats your parents badly.

Edited

He has been like this forever. My parents have tried every possible option and angle to help support him. His behaviour towards them has just gotten worse over time and now we are here. He doesn't show this nasty side to me and is very nice to me, but he would never do a favour for me if I needed him. He wouldn't point blank say no, just would make excuses.

OP posts:
Original poster
Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 00:51

latenightprep · 26/09/2023 00:46

If they tell him he has to leave (in writing, so he can proove that he is homeless) then he can apply to the council for housing.

But I think the problem probably lies with your parents not wanting to do anything like this. My heart goes out to you, I think the only thing you can try to do is try to convince your parents to be tougher with him.

They won't just kick him out without help as they fear what will happen to him left alone. He rejects all their help and all help from social services though. The alternative is staying how they are and being miserable. My mum is at the point now of wanting to kick him out but my dad won't agree so I am constantly hearing both sides of the argument from them...

OP posts:
shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 00:56

You may want to look at another thread Re FTL (failure to launch) and referencing psychologist Dr Tanya somebody. Let me try and find it. The linked article was helpful I thought

HelloNow · 26/09/2023 00:57

Hello, my husband and I have a similar situation with one of our siblings. We have saved very hard to buy a second house for relative to live in. We have an agreement similar to a rental agreement. We clean out their house every 6 months. It is not an easy situation.

EmmaEmerald · 26/09/2023 00:57

So he was always like this...I ask partly because I've been in treatment for depression and anxiety for decades and can probably track it back to age 8.
I don't see it as an excuse to treat people badly.

Just based on the one post, it reminds me of a lad I was at school with. He was awful as a teen and just never changed, his parents kept him in their home till he was about 25 but then literally paid him to go away. He is no longer in touch with parents or sister. He was diagnosed with depression. Never had a job. But the main reason they sent him away was he was incredibly awful to them.

He tried to keep in touch with his sister but it was pretty clear that he saw her as the next in line to look after him. Sorry but that might be why your brother is nice-ish to you.

Mum and I have talked about how many men we know who have ended up like this - not as nasty perhaps but she's got friends in their 80s housing unemployed 40+ year old sons and doing everything for them eg cooking. Do your parents do that?

Also, you mention sectioning which is pretty nuclear. Do you think there might be something else wrong with him?

SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 26/09/2023 00:59

Your parents are enabling his behaviour. He needs to go to a homeless hostel.

shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 01:00

It’s in The Times article title something like our 30-yr-old son lives like a hermit. It’s Professor Tanya Byron who answers the letter. Sorry can’t link

latenightprep · 26/09/2023 01:03

I wonder if your Mum is the one who bears the brunt of dealing with him on a day to day basis and that is why she now wants to ask him to leave and your dad doesn't?

Could you offer your Mum to stay with you for a good long period of time as a break from it all. Your Mum gets a bit of a break, and your Dad gets to see a bit more of the reality of what she has to deal with. Apologies if I'm wrong.

I'd emphasise to them that tough love is the only way really - he'll have to be on his own one day as they won't always be here.

Aquamarine1029 · 26/09/2023 01:07

Nothing will change until everything changes. Until your parents kick him out, your brother has absolutely no incentive to take responsibility for his life.

Your brother is going to kill your mum due to her stress level. It's utterly tragic.

BreadInCaptivity · 26/09/2023 01:10

It's a very difficult situation and one that will not change unless your parents do.

Your DB can afford right now to refuse help/assistance from SS because from what you've posted he has mental capacity and is being looked after by your parents so there is no threat to his basic wellbeing/welfare.

Just because he has MH issues does not mean he will be or you could have him sectioned - the threshold for this is very high and very specific (as it should be).

Personally I'd take a different approach in engaging with SS and request a carers assessment for your parents.

Make the focus on your parents reaching crisis point in looking after your brother and the risk that without support your brother will be made homeless.

That requires zero engagement from him, but gets your parents on the adult SS radar.

Upshot is if he wasn't being cared for by your parents it would cost the LA £££ to do it so there's a benefit in supporting your parents to care for him.

SpaceRaiders · 26/09/2023 01:14

It sounds like he really needs supported living accommodation. I’d advise parents to apply for benefits on his behalf as a starting point. Then look into adult social care, I don’t know how it all works. But it does sound like he’s unable to look after himself sufficiently. Despite him being a pita, i’m not sure I’d have it in me to put him on the street.

Original poster
Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 01:17

shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 01:00

It’s in The Times article title something like our 30-yr-old son lives like a hermit. It’s Professor Tanya Byron who answers the letter. Sorry can’t link

Thank you for this. I have found the article and It is asking me to pay to read. Could you possibly screenshot or copy and paste it if you have an account please? Would be really helpful.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-thirtysomething-son-lives-like-a-hermit-and-we-re-paying-3szzt65sj

OP posts:
Original poster
Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 01:20

EmmaEmerald · 26/09/2023 00:57

So he was always like this...I ask partly because I've been in treatment for depression and anxiety for decades and can probably track it back to age 8.
I don't see it as an excuse to treat people badly.

Just based on the one post, it reminds me of a lad I was at school with. He was awful as a teen and just never changed, his parents kept him in their home till he was about 25 but then literally paid him to go away. He is no longer in touch with parents or sister. He was diagnosed with depression. Never had a job. But the main reason they sent him away was he was incredibly awful to them.

He tried to keep in touch with his sister but it was pretty clear that he saw her as the next in line to look after him. Sorry but that might be why your brother is nice-ish to you.

Mum and I have talked about how many men we know who have ended up like this - not as nasty perhaps but she's got friends in their 80s housing unemployed 40+ year old sons and doing everything for them eg cooking. Do your parents do that?

Also, you mention sectioning which is pretty nuclear. Do you think there might be something else wrong with him?

I'm not sure I should have used sectioning. I meant sending somebody for mental health care without their consent essentially. He has proven that he cannot look after himself and says it it because of his mental health so I was hoping there was a way we could get him help without having to get him to agree. He is not a danger to others or himself, other than the self-neglect

OP posts:
shockthemonkey · 26/09/2023 01:34

Justlikeme234 · 26/09/2023 01:17

Thank you for this. I have found the article and It is asking me to pay to read. Could you possibly screenshot or copy and paste it if you have an account please? Would be really helpful.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-thirtysomething-son-lives-like-a-hermit-and-we-re-paying-3szzt65sj

Show quote history

Sorry OP it was linked in the other thread which I can’t find but I get the paywall on The Times website too. But the other thread had a copy-paste. Can you do an advanced search with Tanya Byron (not thread title) from today? I am on my phone and have limited skills!

INeedAnotherName · 26/09/2023 01:36

This jumped out at me. If he isn't working or claiming benefits how is he affording this?
Hi. No alcohol, just huge amounts of junk food and weed.

That is where your parents need to start. He gets a small amount of money in exchange for keeping his room clean. I'm talking a fiver. He gets another fiver for doing his laundry/change bedding every week. Another if he showers 3 times a week. Parents plate him up a dinner every night so he doesn't eat junk, but when he cooks them a meal he gets another fiver...or he gets a job.

The whole relationship needs to go back to basics on how to parent a teen, as that is how their relationship actually is. And that also involves him being more polite to your parents. They do pay for and control the WiFi after all.

Your "job" is to tell your brother that if anything happens to your parents he won't be living with you so he needs to learn how to be self sufficient and learn to be an adult right now.

Frogger8395 · 26/09/2023 01:44

Where does he get his money for weed from?

Firefly1987 · 26/09/2023 02:21

He needs to quit the weed, otherwise he's out. A doctor sectioned my brother but he has psychosis and it was only for a month. They don't like to do it now only in severe cases if they are a danger and they don't have a lot of beds. If your brother keeps smoking weed he could be headed towards psychosis unfortunately though.

He is probably severely depressed, he will be feeling useless and guilt-ridden but something does need to change. Sorry for all of you OP.

OhcantthInkofaname · 26/09/2023 02:31

I'd say it's time for some tough love. Let him be homeless. He is acting like a toddler.

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