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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Inclusion policies are not working

629 replies

somewherbetweenHoneyandTrunchbull · 22/09/2023 23:44

I am an experienced teacher. And every year budgets are being cut and more and more children are being chucked into mainstream. Non-verbal, extremely sensitive to noisy kids being put into an overcrowded open plan mainstream school. Some have a little speech but couldn't hold a conversation. Many not toilet trained. Many cannot control their emotions and anger. Some where English isn't a first language. Many with social work involvement and living through ongoing trauma at home.
Meanwhile support staff numbers are being cut, year on year.
I had been managing just about. Spinning many plates. Constantly juggling. But then they enrol another two kids with complex needs into my class on 28 individuals. I just can't do it any more. This week I've been bitten, scratched, hit so hard I thought they had cracked a rib. Violent incident forms all filled in but reality means not much will change as I can't get more that 2 20 minute slots of teaching assistant time each week.
I love my job. I love the kids. I love those lightbulb moments. But at the moment I can't do my job of teaching children. I can barely keep them and myself safe in my class. I try. I'm exhausted. I'm worn out working day and night so that I'm super organised so everything can go smoothly but it never does. If it was just one child having a meltdown I probably coolyld cope. I just do t know which firework will go off when. I don't know what is setting them off and once they go, others follow.
I cry most days at how hopeless it feels. I have some really bright and eager children too. They are also being let down by this system. I'm not sure who the current education policies help. It doesn't seem to help anyone except desensitising children to daily bouts of violence and the language.
I'm very broken tonight. I'm so sleepy but won't help x

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Another one with only swearing and name calling in response. So you don't actually know if there's any real possibility of a court convicting you in those circumstances. You choose to expose other children and teachers to your son's violence in order to get him into an appropriate school later on. You could just own that, you know. It's understandable, the system is insane. Maybe if I were in your shoes I'd do the same. I guarantee I'd take responsibility for what I was doing though.

SocialistSally · 23/09/2023 15:23

My autistic daughter is one of the children. She’s been out of school since April. We’ve applied for an EHCP, but Brent old that all the suitable specialist provision is full. She’s had no alternative provision, which she’s legally entitled to (despite and endless battle on my part).

She has extreme anxiety and is traumatised by school. She’s also very bright and was shivering above her age range. There is no suitable provision for her. Mainstream schools could be made more inclusive with funding. But the government don’t care about children like my daughter.

Shes 11 and anxious about her future. She desperately wants to be able to go to school.

I’m also an ex-teacher. I don’t blame her teachers, the system is utterly broken.

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:25

You choose to expose other children and teachers to your son's violence in order to get him into an appropriate school later on

Whatever. I asked the LA for specialist provision when my child was just turned three. He’s now in Y2 with no specialist provision in sight. My fault or the LA’s? It’s the system that’s fucked up, not parents or teachers doing their best.

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 23/09/2023 15:25

toomuchforonewoman · 23/09/2023 15:10

That's not fair. NO child should have to be bullied in school, attacked, hit or bitten. How you you think that affects THEIR experience of school life or their anxiety never mind their learning.
Don't blame parents who don't have a special needs child standing up for their kids who are mercilessly tormented in the school setting. They will be thinking of their OWN kids and the repercussions of being attacked is having on them.

@toomuchforonewoman I quite agree that no children should be bullied or attacked in school. I strongly disagree that inclusion is causing bullying and violenxe as a straight forward correspondence. Nor is it fair to blame disabled children per se for difficulties experienced by others. In general, the cohort of disabled children is much more likely to experience bullying, harassment, attacks, injustice and disadvantage at every point. But this is how discrimination always works- some group who are disliked for their sex or their race or their religion or their disability are accused of taking more than their share from the ‘poor, unfortunate, decent, normal people’. @Ylvamoon and her DC are going to be fine.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/09/2023 15:26

SocialistSally · 23/09/2023 15:23

My autistic daughter is one of the children. She’s been out of school since April. We’ve applied for an EHCP, but Brent old that all the suitable specialist provision is full. She’s had no alternative provision, which she’s legally entitled to (despite and endless battle on my part).

She has extreme anxiety and is traumatised by school. She’s also very bright and was shivering above her age range. There is no suitable provision for her. Mainstream schools could be made more inclusive with funding. But the government don’t care about children like my daughter.

Shes 11 and anxious about her future. She desperately wants to be able to go to school.

I’m also an ex-teacher. I don’t blame her teachers, the system is utterly broken.

Mine too. Out if school since April. Wouldn’t even assess for EHCP

countrygirl99 · 23/09/2023 15:27

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:22

Another one with only swearing and name calling in response. So you don't actually know if there's any real possibility of a court convicting you in those circumstances. You choose to expose other children and teachers to your son's violence in order to get him into an appropriate school later on. You could just own that, you know. It's understandable, the system is insane. Maybe if I were in your shoes I'd do the same. I guarantee I'd take responsibility for what I was doing though.

I guess of you are actually dealing with a child with severe SEND day in day out with the prospect of that carrying on for the rest of your life you don't need the added stress of going to court to see of you will really be convicted.

LakieLady · 23/09/2023 15:27

Sirzy · 23/09/2023 10:03

Local authorities CAN fully fund support packages. They just try not too

The repeated cuts in central government grant (from 90% to 60%) to LAs means that there's a big gap between what services cost to provide and the funds they have available. It's especially bad in areas where there is two-tier local government because they deliver fewer services, so have less scope for top-slicing other budgets. (More than 50% of my county council's budget goes on Adult Social Care and more than 25% on education.)

You're aiming the blame at the wrong target, @Sirzy .

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:29

I guess of you are actually dealing with a child with severe SEND day in day out with the prospect of that carrying on for the rest of your life you don't need the added stress of going to court to see of you will really be convicted

Exactly. We can’t even get respite, let alone adequate care while me and DH do a stretch. Utter fuckwittery.

Ylvamoon · 23/09/2023 15:30

@AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman - I find your post really hurtful.

Yes, my children will have what is considered a normal life. That is, AFTER they have delt with the trauma of being physically attacked, watching other children in total distress & meltdown and spending a lot of time sitting quietly in a corridor instead of learning their ABC's and numbers.

So yes, I am not sorry for having children that are, what is considered normal.
But I will continue to suffer in silence... and always be compassionate towards people who have it worse than us.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:30

BethDuttonsTwin · 23/09/2023 14:05

What would happen beyond hectoring if you kept a violent child home from school?

www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence

The same as happens to any other child with unauthorised absence. Hope you find this helpful.

My ds school refused to authorise an absence to attend a gp appointment the day after he attempted to end his own life because of being a victim of knife crime on school premises.

The system attacks those most vulnerable.

But it also puts others at risk and makes them vulnerable by failing those in need.

It's just failing - full stop AngrySad

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:31

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:25

You choose to expose other children and teachers to your son's violence in order to get him into an appropriate school later on

Whatever. I asked the LA for specialist provision when my child was just turned three. He’s now in Y2 with no specialist provision in sight. My fault or the LA’s? It’s the system that’s fucked up, not parents or teachers doing their best.

It doesn't matter who's at fault for failing to provide for your child. The question is who's at fault for exposing other children and teachers to your child's violence. That's largely you. You're doing your best for your child within the context of an insane system, sure. Obviously it's far from what's best for the other children and the teacher.

Prinnny · 23/09/2023 15:31

I don’t understand your question?

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:32

Obviously it's far from what's best for the other children and the teacher

Cry me a river.

Prinnny · 23/09/2023 15:32

BethDuttonsTwin · 23/09/2023 15:09

And did you have any difficult experience with regards to this?

I don’t understand your question?

Sworntofun · 23/09/2023 15:33

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’m another ex primary teacher who got out before the stress of it all sent me under. You are so spot on OP. Inclusion was a brave and well meaning idea but without vastly more support and funding it will always fail. What I can’t understand is why parents of the non SEND children don’t complain more as they are to at a degree not taught properly. In my last class I spent so much of my time and energy trying to support children with special needs, medical needs, anger issues, social issues etc that the rest of the class didn’t get a look in and I felt they were left to teach themselves sometimes. And I was a good well organised experienced teacher. I fear for young teachers faced with ever increasing demands like this.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:33

Has anyone ever been convicted for keeping their child at home to prevent them from attacking other children and teachers?

I don't know. But keeping them home just means the LA removes their responsibility for them and they don't get even a suitable education.

I was threatened with court and fines for keeping a vulnerable disabled child at home to protect him from non disabled children - one of whom drew a knife on him in school.

I told them to go ahead (in writing) as I'd love to hear what a judge had to say about a vulnerable disabled child having to wait for a court date for refusal to assess for an EHCP when they were too vulnerable and anxious to attend a school and had been a victim of crime within it!

They'd backtracked within 12 minutes!

toomuchforonewoman · 23/09/2023 15:37

AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman · 23/09/2023 15:25

@toomuchforonewoman I quite agree that no children should be bullied or attacked in school. I strongly disagree that inclusion is causing bullying and violenxe as a straight forward correspondence. Nor is it fair to blame disabled children per se for difficulties experienced by others. In general, the cohort of disabled children is much more likely to experience bullying, harassment, attacks, injustice and disadvantage at every point. But this is how discrimination always works- some group who are disliked for their sex or their race or their religion or their disability are accused of taking more than their share from the ‘poor, unfortunate, decent, normal people’. @Ylvamoon and her DC are going to be fine.

Inclusion is CAUSING violence, disruption, breaking of things, kids being terrified of a classmate, being injured, not learning adequately. The child with special needs is not being hit or injured are they? Obviously you have no experience of being on the other side of this where your child's nose was broken because of "inclusion", where your child so afraid of going to school every day because of this child, that their learning was disrupted and almost halted because of "inclusion". Give me a break. Any child who has the capability to break another child's nose in a school seeing should not be there.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:37

Children's behaviour and health has deteriorated so rapidly that people outside the frontline systems have no real idea. How are they supposed to know that 'enough' funding now means enough funding to deal with a reception class where normally developing children are literally a minority, as a teacher above said? There's no open public discussion about this.

Teachers have been saying it for years.

People have chosen not to listen.

Or rather they've chosen to listen to a government that blames the teachers.

This is not a new problem. It's an increasing problem that's been made worse by finding cuts.

The problem is people only care when it affects them. It's now affecting nearly every class in a mainstream school. So people now are willing to listen.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:41

Incidence of SEN strongly correlates with social class yes

In the sense that parents with LD/ send themselves are statistically more likely to have a child with send. They are also statistically more likely to live in poverty.

It's not because of social class they have send. Disabilities aren't discriminate to only the uteruses of working class woman!

Plus you see these statistics change depending on type of send. For example cerebral palsy from birth complications, meningitis etc is more equally split competed to ASD/ADHD where the parents are also ND.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/09/2023 15:43

Incidence of SEN strongly correlates with social class yes

Well Dh and l both have post grad degrees and live in a nice area. 1 with ASD and 1 with Dyslexia.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:44

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:33

Has anyone ever been convicted for keeping their child at home to prevent them from attacking other children and teachers?

I don't know. But keeping them home just means the LA removes their responsibility for them and they don't get even a suitable education.

I was threatened with court and fines for keeping a vulnerable disabled child at home to protect him from non disabled children - one of whom drew a knife on him in school.

I told them to go ahead (in writing) as I'd love to hear what a judge had to say about a vulnerable disabled child having to wait for a court date for refusal to assess for an EHCP when they were too vulnerable and anxious to attend a school and had been a victim of crime within it!

They'd backtracked within 12 minutes!

Of course they did. Well done for standing up to them.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:45

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/09/2023 15:43

Incidence of SEN strongly correlates with social class yes

Well Dh and l both have post grad degrees and live in a nice area. 1 with ASD and 1 with Dyslexia.

Your degrees aren't in statistics, no?

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:48

Well Dh and l both have post grad degrees and live in a nice area. 1 with ASD and 1 with Dyslexia

Doctor and lawyer here. 1 with ASC, ADHD, SPD and dyspraxia.

itsgettingweird · 23/09/2023 15:48

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 23/09/2023 15:43

Incidence of SEN strongly correlates with social class yes

Well Dh and l both have post grad degrees and live in a nice area. 1 with ASD and 1 with Dyslexia.

Well read the whole of my post and not the first 2 lines and you'll see I have quantified statistically why I said yes.

I'm also MC with a degree and a disabled child.

Pollyputhekettleon · 23/09/2023 15:51

Vinvertebrate · 23/09/2023 15:48

Well Dh and l both have post grad degrees and live in a nice area. 1 with ASD and 1 with Dyslexia

Doctor and lawyer here. 1 with ASC, ADHD, SPD and dyspraxia.

Also not in statistics. I see a trend...

Swipe left for the next trending thread