I still fancy RB

[WesterChick]

I've watched the documentary.

I still fancy RB.

I identify as a radical feminist.

I'm married with kids.

I think that if you are a heterosexual woman, you are either in denial on what men are or you accept what they are but find them irresistibly sexually attractive and so continue to be with them.

RB is simply what the vast majority of men would be like if they could get away with it.

Therefore - and because he's bloody good looking, funny and intelligent - and sexy - I will continue to fancy the pants off him.

I think women who are being all shocked and descusted at his behaviour need to consider what men are actually like. There's not some massive demarcation between him and other men.

I don't understand the appeal and never have. He always looked like the lads at school who smelt weird and had dirty coats. They normally had a mother in the background begging them to have a wash and stop stealing her eyeliner.

@WesterChick Then I hope that he treats you extremely well and that you don’t feel your DH falls in this category.

Experienced finding a rapist attractive? No, I can absolutely say I have never done so. The fact of knowing they are a rapist would take ANY ounce of sexual attraction I had ever had for them away.

Because its that despicable of an act. How you're ok with it is mind blowing to me. It's not ok.

Even before all of this came to light, I never understood what others saw in him.
He looks unkempt, dirty, has the most awful voice/accent, and his jokes aren't even remotely funny.........
He's pretty much the opposite of what I'd look for in a man.
But in answer to your post, I find it odd that you'd still fancy a man who's capable of treating women in such a disgusting manner.

OP, once upon a time I might have thought similarly to you. I recognise my past self in a lot of your posts.

I have since had quite a bit of therapy and consider myself on the road to recovery from trauma.

It used to be a self defence mechanism of mine to believe that sexual trauma was an inevitability. It was initially hard for me to accept that actually I was just unlucky. But ultimately very healing.

All the best x

That my screen saver you're talking about?

Of course, in a certain light, his contemporaries said you wouldn't put Ted Bundy out on a cold dark night either.

I agree to a certain extent OP. I think what's been shocking to me about the revelations of the last few years - this, operations Yewtree etc - is the sheer amount of men who have taken opportunities because they could. It does make me wonder how many more would do so given the chance.

But many haven't taken those opportunities @GlitteryGreen
Somehow many men manage to restrain themselves.

But many haven't taken those opportunities @GlitteryGreen
Somehow many men manage to restrain themselves.

Yep

Yes!

But I would say all men do have the chance in one way or another. And it's plain to everyone that most men who rape and assault women get away with it.

Despite knowing this and having the opportunity, most men do not assault women. I would say that demonstrates that most men do not want to assault women.

Why would a feminist, nevermind a ’radical’ one be married and have kids?
That doesn’t make any sense.

Most men watch porn yes?

And most porn depicts controlling, male dominated sex of the sort RB seems to practise.

This. I honestly don't believe all the posters saying they've always hated him etc... And the posters saying he needs a good wash with a wire brush. 'eyeroll' such a boring response to a person who doesn't dress in the normal boring chinos and polo shirt look with freshly cut hair. I've always found the majority of his jokes funny, the quiz shows he was on with Jimmy Carr, his Ponderland was particularly funny. I've never been into the smitty jokes so much, I find them boring and tiresome, but I generally find him quick witted and amusing.

Why would a feminist, nevermind a ’radical’ one be married and have kids?

Because plenty of feminist women are?

Your thread yesterday about you still fancying RB had the best deletion message I've ever seen on Mumsnet.

You've not quite taken to heart what HQ said, have you?

*Most men watch porn yes?

And most porn depicts controlling, male dominated sex of the sort RB seems to practise.*

Well the first statement is an assumption,
but what are you getting at?

That all men are therefore the same as RB?

So you agree that this is inappropriate, making light of very serious and concerning allegations, and belitting and harmful to RBs alleged victims, as you stated when you took this post down the first time, but because this poster has been on MN a long time it's being allowed?

So if I made a post saying I'd like to ride Vladimir Putin across the Baltic sea like a speedboat that'd get taken down because I don't have the benefit of Internet Tenure?

Interesting system you have.

I'm not making light of anything.

Thank you to the posters who are taking my post seriously and engaging with the points I am trying to make, I don't expect everyone to agree with me but monstering him doesn't help anyone understand how he and other men operate. I don't think it's so odd to want to discuss this.

The only benefit in me being a long-standing poster is that I remember the days before threads being shared on FB etc, and MN being worried about the impact of controversial threads on sponsors. I was pretty shocked to have my initial thread deleted, it doesn't break any site rules. Even if it offends some posters' sensibilities. MN has always been about authentic women's voices and I own one of them ta.

I never fancied him because I think he is quite ugly looking.

I never found him funny, no particular reason, wasn't offended just didn't catch my attention.

I believe all the allegation and am utterly revolted by him.

I feel sad for you that you're not.

I don't like how this is being handled though. Why all the clips of shocking material with no context; this was acceptable humour at the time! It was mainstream TV ffs.

Honestly I think this is a really important discussion - the question whether [most/all/many/some/any] men would do what RB has done if they had the chance.

Also the question of whether RB is totally different to other men like in some kind of class of evilness or whether he is "just a man".

Whether or not our culture in general, now, in the 00s, in the 70s, excuses or glosses over this kind of behaviour, or takes it for granted, like it's just normal/how men are.

I think you've shot yourself in the foot a bit with the title because people are reacting directly to that, and I don't think that's really the point, because it doesn't really matter who finds him attractive, clearly many people do/did as he's been listed on various "hot lists" - same for Johnny Depp for example.

I think you've shot yourself in the foot a bit with the title because people are reacting directly to that, and I don't think that's really the point, because it doesn't really matter who finds him attractive, clearly many people do/did as he's been listed on various "hot lists" - same for Johnny Depp for example.

this

So you agree that this is inappropriate, making light of very serious and concerning allegations, and belitting and harmful to RBs alleged victims, as you stated when you took this post down the first time, but because this poster has been on MN a long time it's being allowed?

I think my understanding of radical feminism may be different to OP's but I also think this is an important discussion.

Why are women able to overlook appalling behaviour by men and still find them attractive even though it's apparent some of those men are dangerous and a threat to the safety of women?

Emily Maitlis interviewed Brand in 2017. In the parts of the interview I saw he was rude and patronising. EM said she didn't expect to like him but actually found him mesmerising. IMO she is a highly intelligent and accomplished interviewer so why was she taken in by a man I've always considered to be an intellectual fraud.

Is there some logic defying magic about this man or is there something about the way women are socialised, our place in society or how our expectations of men are set which makes this possible?

It's easy to point out out you never fancied him. After all he is a real 'type' and lots wouldn't.

And not really engage with what you are getting at.

I think women who are being all shocked and descusted at his behaviour need to consider what men are actually like.

I tend to think a radfem would be able to spell ‘disgusted’.

I don’t believe you are one.

If you’re a radfem, I’m Mata Hari.