AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

A really big problem is going to be with energy supply and demand mismatches as more renewable energy generation is used.

If we're moving towards electrification of heat, transport etc more work needs to be done on peak shifting and energy storage or there's no way wind and solar will be able to supply everything we need.

Although that's maybe a secondary problem considering the grid connections wouldn't be able to cope at the moment either...

Problem sorted, then. No need for you to virtue signal with net 0, since UK’s emissions make no difference at all to the global picture. The largest emitter has already taken care of things for the planet according to you.

I never virtue signalled. Please learn the definition of words.

Yikes on a bike

You're just argumentative for the sake of it when your flimsy excuse of an argument flaps aren't you

Night.

I agree. We need to work on finding ways to store the energy. This is an opportunity we should be seizing because we could sell it globally. Moving use of energy works but I think consumers would prefer s long term storage solution.

Finally we agree that the two larger players will need to solve the problem. The UK is irrelevant. And China is doing a great job. Problem solved.

This whole 'we're irrelevant; we're only 1%' thing is so weird to me.

You as an individual are only 0.0000015ish % of the UK population, but I bet you still don't drop litter, cough without covering your mouth, barge past people to get on a bus etc. These actions would have basically no effect on the country, but you don't do them anyway, because you are aware that you live in and contribute to a society.

You probably also vote in national elections, even though you know that there are some massive red/blue spots that won't be shifted. Because you recognise that your vote matters.

This feels the same to me. We are (a small) part of a global effort.

It appears as though every government in the world is choosing their short term interests (greedy fucks) over our children's and grandchildren's well-being. I worry about their future every day. All we ever hear is that WE are responsible for the change, but in reality we don't have that power, it's a very top down thing. It's mind blowing the implications this has for the future. It's very grim. And yes wicked.

We need nuclear. Long-term, hydrogen is also an excellent way to store renewable energy and avoid ups and downs being an issue, but for the moment, nuclear baseloading is absolutely essential.

Unfortunately, we’ve just seen Sizewell suffer another setback at the hands of the UK’s many NIMBYs.

The same kind of people also stopped the UK from setting up an electrical inter connector between the UK and France which would have allowed us to use France’s abundant and cheap nuclear power to meet about 5% of the UK’s total electricity needs; it was blocked because it might have affected the view from a resident’s cottage in Portsmouth - I wish I was joking…..

The UK is not a serious country any more. Can’t build inter connectors, can’t build nuclear power plants, can’t build onshore wind, barely builds offshore wind any more, can’t build high speed rail…

It’s as though this country’s aspiration is to dwindle into a kind of museum piece full of pensioners’ bungalows and outdated technology while the rest of the world moves on. Like a sort of giant Venice with shitter weather.

Oh, and re what you said about grids not being able to cope - yep, that’s another issue, and another potential clash coming. We’re going to have to build a LOT of extra pylons everywhere in order to electrify all these things (heating, cars etc.). That’s great, but we are already starting to see residents throwing hissy fits because they don’t want to see a pylon near their house.

I honestly think that the UK is just going to have to railroad a lot of these people, in the end, because being nice and trying to address their whinging doesn’t seem to work.

Look at HS2. The cost of the project ballooned to wince-worthy levels in large part because of nonstop NIMBYism, protesting, petitions, doing mad things like building huge tunnels so nobody in the village of Little Whining has to look at a train track etc. and the project has still ended up being mostly cancelled. Spain has just built oodles of high speed rail, for approximately 1/10 the cost per km that Britain spent on HS2.

Net Zero needed so much foundation work doing that should have already been done & hasn't. Things like car charging points for one thing, I read they need at least 300,000 more fitting if petrol & diesel cars are banned from 2030. They refused to spend the money, banned solar farms, are dragging their heels for onshore wind, if we had still been in the EU there would have been grants & subsidies available.

We'd also need a load more electric cars with lithium batteries, the manufacture and shipping of which emits huge quantities of greenhouse gases. But they would be another country's emissions not ours so that's ok....

It's fucking populist politics at its finest. Weak, weak weak leadership. Tories out now!

1% is a lot

The issue is the cost and effectiveness of the current alternatives.

I don't think electric cars are the answer, particularly in terms of lithium mining and battery degradation. Hydrogen looks interesting but we're pushing everyone towards electric vehicles with inadequate infrastructure to support it.

I have an air source heat pump. It's shit.

I don't disagree with the aim but we should be focusing on persuading the biggest polluters to meet targets. We should also be taking the time to research alternatives properly rather than chucking money around like a scatter gun at anything that looks vaguely innovative.

There's a balance between the UK setting by example and wasting money on white elephant schemes when our public debt is eye watering.

Agree with the person who said that we need nuclear as part of the answer. And that the costs real or imagined of getting to net zero are being used as a desperate bid to get votes.

No I don't and I'm glad it was the wrong time. Yes we are in a climate emergency but forcing people into crippling boilers and electric cars when it's too expensive with cost of living etc is too much.
There needs to be a creative and gentler approach to help not this brutality.

I

But this is in the news? They aren't covering it. There can be multiple news stories at once...unless you only glance at headlines once a week you would have heard of it.

@Wsmi Genuine question. What are your sources?

Yep, it's despicable.

Yes climates change but human behaviour is accelerating it with catastrophes ALREADY happening. We all have to make changes and I'd like to live in a country that has integrity and good morals, that shows leadership to the rest of the world. I want a clear conscience.

Indeed. I'm liking Rishi more and more everyday as I read how he's dropping the more pointless policies.

The UK is not a manufacturing country any more. We have outsourced virtually all of our manufacturing/heavy industry to China - yet we are still one of the world's highest Co2 emitters due to our lifestyles and consumption patterns.

We need to get under 2kg per capita to avoid catastrophic change. This does not mean 'as you were' because it's all everyone else's fault. It means stopping private jets, limiting all domestic flights and unnecessary car travel. Investing in public transport and using it. Insisting on fewer, but better quality necessary electronic goods that do not have to be constantly upgraded. No fast fashion. Adopting less intensive farming methods, eating far less dairy and meat. We would all be healthier. Yet whenever this is suggested there is outrage. Everyone needs to adapt - and this means actually going without things that we like.

💯 this 👆

I’m just relieved they’ve made a sensible decision for once.

@IslaWinds I appreciate the graphs showing where we are

The changes required are many, it was very ambitious. And when it came to people spending money on those then that will be hard too. Right now it’s an abstract if positive phrase. Being tied in to it is another matter

Going by info U.K. looks fairly ahead, next US GE might be the one for sweating over