AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Some people seem to conveniently ignore which country has caused most of the pollution since the industrial revolution began.

The countries suffering from climate change now do so because of what we did in the oast not just the present.

Our current output is still far greater than the nations suffering the most.

There are huge business opportunities for us to lead on this

It depresses me the attitude some take on this just so they don't have to change

The wood for the trees part is literally about people being unable, or unwilling, to see the benefits and opportunities net zero can bring to their lives because of their own bias.

I don’t think it is bias, this has felt to me difficult for a while

Personally I’ve made loads of changes though, in terms of lowering consumerism and other. We’re probably pretty good when weighed up against others in terms of what we’ve changed.

Those that demand it may well say differently when the bills start hitting for house upgrades etc

Overall I’m for looking at U.K. in global ranking and weigh it against other considerations

I’ve been trying to upgrade my house insulation for about three years. There are so few companies doing it now. I had agreed a date with someone and he’s had a heart attack and closed his company!

This lack of investment and closure of grants for households is all part of a short-sighted understanding of the economy around this issue and the potential for growth.

For everyone harping on about the 1% thing. Imports etc aside, you do realise we account for less than 1% of the global population don’t you?

We should be pushing for multilateral action. Admittedly that’s harder to do post-Brexit, funny that. We should be leading by example especially as we are one of the key culprits for getting the world into this mess.

China, India, etc have only just caught up and are being told to stop doing what we’ve been doing for the best part of a century. The poorest countries which will be the hardest hit are expected to set aside large swathes of land for carbon swamps etc. None of it’s desirable but we are where we are and we don’t have much longer of life as we know it.

It’s got to happen at some point relatively soon whether we like it or not. We’re supposed to be world leaders in science -we should be doing it now rather than scrabbling to catch up.

How any of you deniers are going to be able to look your kids in the eye in 20 years’ time, I don’t know.

Have to hide this thread now because it’s literally making me feel sick 🙈

I am against paying taxes that would eventually bankrupt most people. Even more so knowing that the difference we make is a drop in the ocean.

@Wsmi who pays you to spread climate change disinformation? You're certainly doing a lot of it.

Those that demand it may well say differently when the bills start hitting for house upgrades etc

Those who object to it may well say differently when they're paying even higher energy bills or they / their loved ones are sitting in cold, damp, mouldy homes.

Those who object to it may well say differently when they can't sell or remortgage (or have to pay higher rates to do so) their property because banks have decided that poorly insulated homes are not a sound investment anymore.

Those who object to it may well say differently when their council can't afford to provide services they need / want becuase they're spending so much on dealing with negative outcomes from those living in fuel poverty / poorly insulated houses.

Overall I’m for looking at U.K. in global ranking and weigh it against other considerations

To what end? This is exactly the kind of attitude that will ensure the UK is left behind.

Whether you agree with it or not, the people who control the money are factoring in climate change into their decision making now. They know with certainty it is a risk that needs managed and considered.

There's several trillion pounds worth of investment sitting in funds that will only mobilise capital for net zero projects (GFANZ alone is made up of over 550 financial institutions controlling over $100 trillion worth of finance).

If we want the UK to "grow" and remain prosperous we should looking to access those types of investments by striving to be global leaders in net zero, not sheepishly checking on what others are doing.

Why do you think you'd be paying more taxes?

Climate change is rapidly making large parts of the world near uninhabitable for humans, crops and livestock. Do you think the majority of people in this country are going to be welcoming all the people who are going to be forced out of those areas? You clearly don't have a clue about the severity of the issue.

Nope...it was ill thought through and made little sense and would cause economic harm.

All this doesn’t make that £15k upgrade go away. Do you have the funds to do it?

I’ll do other things, that I bet many others are not even those getting exercised over the shift do

That’s my approach. Not a ‘denier’ as pp. I take it pretty seriously, enough to change our behaviour

Exactly! I'm sure there are many people who think we live in a giant bubble, like a nationwide Eden project, and we are only affected by what we do ourselves. Reducing to net zero tomorrow would make almost no difference on the world stage. Until there is a worldwide consensus it's, sadly, pointless,

Yes it will cost money: but how much did Brexit or covid cost each household?

And this is something where we can actually GROW our economy while making improvements: a benefit that Brexit and covid have failed to have…

Except it isn’t, is it? Or maybe we should take that approach to everything: women’s rights, slavery… no point us getting rid of stuff if other countries are still benefitting. No point being a leader.

Highandlows · Today 10:09

I am against paying taxes that would eventually bankrupt most people. Even more so knowing that the difference we make is a drop in the ocean.

Thats why we need to tax WEALTH not income. Capital Gains Tax is much lower than income tax. Those who hog all the assets are reaping massive rewards and giving little back. The more they get, the more they are able to get. We need to tax wealth more. We also need tax breaks for environmentally friendly and innovative businesses and heavier taxes on climate breakdown inducing business. Why are oil and gas companies still allowed to make such massive profits, knowingly putting us all in danger. We need massive tax reform - there is plenty of money.

Everything costs that’s the problem. You missed the current war in the list. People are maxed out already

You talk about grants, that comes from somewhere - the taxpayer?

All this is our cost not some abstract idea the gov will pay for, it comes from taxpayers

It’s not as if we’re dropping it, but I always thought it a stretch

As for needing to lead we’re ahead already going by those charts in pp

Simple fact is that this country equals less than 1% of emissions so it really doesn’t make any difference!!!
Until countries such as China, Russia, America, India start cutting we will get nowhere

Why are oil and gas companies still allowed to make such massive profits, knowingly putting us all in danger

Erm, because they're selling commodities at the globally determined price. Basic supply and demand unless you think BP and Shell should sell their products at a lower price than every other global oil and gas company?

If you want to point the finger for soaring energy prices, the main culprits are Russia for invading Ukraine and OPEC for managing production quotas to keep prices high.

You started talking about this in the context of the big picture so I'm not sure why you're now focusing down on individual level issues?

It's irrelevant whether you or I can afford to upgrade our house becuase the point I was making is that, from big picture perspective, there are huge additional benefits to society in pursuing net zero projects if you can look past the "oooooo the cost" and "oooooo other countries' headlines being pushed by outlets with vested intrests.

Like I said there's literally trillions of pounds worth of finance already earmarked for these types of projects. A visionary, or even semi-competent, government would look to access those funds and create national schemes to help upgrade all housing stock so that it doesn't cost you and me 15k to do so.

I genuinely don't understand why you are arguing against improving energy efficiency in buildings? Do you also moan that you have to maintain your house in general?

How much did it cost to provide everyone with an energy grant?

How much does it cost to deal with the societal issues that stem from people living in fuel poverty?

How much does it cost to deal with the health outcomes brought on or made worse by living in cold, damp, poorly ventilated properties?

How much more will if cost with as the overall age of the population increases and overall health decreases.

Yes exactly! Why would we want to work towards creating a cleaner, more efficient, more affordable, more equal society when all those OTHER countries aren't doing the same?

You started talking about this in the context of the big picture so I'm not sure why you're now focusing down on individual level issues?

I didn’t realise I had to check changes in posts from wider issues to personal with you first

Do you also moan that you have to maintain your house in general?

The opposite. My house is good as it goes. I’m happy with the heating, the maintenance, no mould as you put earlier. We’ll make changes when we can and feel is best. Others will need ££ which needs to be funded by taxpayers.

And this trillions just sitting there, sounds nice. It’s a wonder everyone else is struggling with same issues on how to pay for all this.

As for all this chiding on not wanting green stuff enough, it’s relentless. I already posted we have made more changes than most, possibly more than you, can you not direct your ire at those not doing enough

when China ans India et al cut their emmissions then just maybe our tiny island should try to cut ours but as out 1% is negligable why should we all pay through the nose to change bpoilers cars etc?

sep135 Read my post properly. I want them taxed!! And taxed hard. They are KNOWINGLY selling a product that causes harm. They’ve known for years and have invested heavily in discrediting climate science.