Advice . Should toddler group volunteer be DBS checked

[Storm85]

Hi looking for some advice as unsure what to do if anything.
Ive attended a toddler group for a while and there’s a couple of helpers who help set up etc just wondering what to do regarding a male volunteer approx mid/late 40s who does this with no child there . He stays the whole time. Was told his child used to go to the group but now is like 8/9 years old but he’s stayed ever since. He just acts abit odd and I asked someone privately who told me anyone can volunteer ( usually a parent ) and no DBS check etc
I'm not really sure what I’m asking other than should this man have some sort of check etc I feel abit uncomfortable and unsure who to report my concerns to as a lot seem to think he is fantastic , he does seem nice enough just sometimes acts and says things abit strange, he is friends with the leader of the toddler group so can’t really talk to her. It is held in a church if that helps
Thank you

My local toddler group is always asking for volunteers to set up/clean at the end. No one's DBS checked. Weird that he gets kids
To sit on his lap. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Talking about cross dressing, even if you ignore the encouraging children to sit on his lap, is hardly being worried just for him existing.

Are you seriously telling me that you’d be quite happy with a male volunteer discussing cross dressing around your child at a group?

Because I don’t believe that for a single second.

Straw poll - wonder how many people here have had discussions about cross-dressing at toddler or baby groups. Not many I imagine. Guess drag may up in conversation note with the tv drag programme, but I don’t think that’s what op is talking about.

🚩 Attends a toddler group without having a toddler of his own.
🚩Encourages physical contact with children (getting children to sit on his knee is very personal and way beyond acceptable).
🚩Has befriended single mums in particular.

🚩Visits the mums at their homes.
🚩Initiates inappropriate conversations (no one needs to discuss cross-dressing around toddlers with parents you don’t really know that well. How does that even go…”He was up at 3am last night with that cough”…”Aw bless”…”I really like how stockings feel”…😳).
🚩Is friends with the person you’d usually make complaints to.
🚩The church apparently has little to no safeguarding checks in place so would be an easier place to get contact with children.

Bollocks to this “Poor men can’t even look at children these days” attitude. Of course they can. The point is that the men who complain about the checks/safeguarding are the ones you don’t want around children. Someone who had nothing to hide will accept the really not very onerous guidance we have these days. What exactly is wrong with things like making sure you’re not on You’re own with a child, or not visiting people at home, or sitting children on your knee. What is the detriment to this particular man if he didn’t have a child sitting on his knee?

Even if this man is purer than the driven snow, things should be put in place NOW to ensure nothing happens in the future with a different man. If he has a problem with that then he can go find a different toddler group to volunteer at.

Never underestimate the lengths predators will go to to gain access to children.

@Lolapusht is right. So many red flags here.

Thanks everyone I have emailed the church so hopefully they will at least look into it .
I appreciate all your responses but I did not just judge this man as some suggested, I’ve been going many months and it’s taken me a long time to actually act on my suspicions which hopefully are wrong and he is a decent man . I’m just concerned that he seems to target vulnerable single mothers and openly said he likes women even would like to wear a dress etc ( btw this man claims he is in a unhappy marriage but won’t do anything about it) I don’t think he has many male friends. Hopefully all is innocent and the church going forward will do checks on volunteers.

I would think it's very odd that someone who doesn't have children would volunteer there? Man or woman. Even more odd is that he has kids -8/9 and yet he still has the time or want to volunteer at a toddler group. And his cross dressing comment are a big no. I don't blame you for feeling wary of him.

OP, don’t be surprised if the church brush off your concerns. It’s a very common response. Most of us want to see the good in people, so believing that the nice bloke who volunteers is a predator can be a real leap.

In order to accept that someone may have nefarious motives you have to accept that you have been wrong about someone and missed signs that others have seen. You also have to admit that some people do horrible things to children.

We had a case locally where a convicted pedophile had left years ago but came back under the guise of having an interest in the local history. His past wasn’t really common knowledge. He befriended a family with two children and regularly posted in the town FB groups. Everyone thought he was lovely. A local knew what he’d done and had warned the dad of the family who didn’t believe that “Jim” could do that/was the same person. It took the local posting the msgs he’d had with the pedophile where he basically admitted his offences and tried to defend them (he’d been convicted then retried on a technicality and found guilty a second time, but he focused on the fact that his initial verdict had been overturned 🙄 Ex-copper. Lovely bloke). The dad couldn’t believe that this lovely guy did what he’d admitted to. I think the outrage of everyone convinced him that it was all true. Point of the story, even when faced with firsthand evidence of abuse, people will still believe the abuser.

In order for your church to make changes, more than one person is going to have to admit that they have been in the wrong for 9 years.

"In order for your church to make changes, more than one person is going to have to admit that they have been in the wrong for 9 years"

Assuming that the man is an abuser.

Not necessarily. Presumably he is never alone with a child. Parents/carers are always with their child at a toddler group aren't they?
People need to be DBS checked if they are ever alone with a child, take them to the toilet etc

The toddler group I used to take my GC to was run by retired people mainly women but there were sometimes men who took money on the door and helped set up etc
It's not that unusual.

@HicIocusEst correct.

If it all checks out and the OP’s instincts are wrong then there won’t be a problem.

Much better that one innocent situation is looked into than an actual abusive situation is overlooked because people don’t want to make assumptions.

Is there nothing in what the OP has posted that you think is dodgy/wrong/unacceptable?

It's always worth checking whether they're applying for a Basic when an Enhanced could be appropriate;

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/disclosure-application-process-for-volunteers/disclosure-application-process-for-volunteers

Standard, Enhanced, and Enhanced with Barred Lists DBS checks

Applicants do not pay for Standard, Enhanced, or Enhanced with Barred Lists DBS checks for volunteer positions. The checks however are processed in the same way as for a paid position.

The other thing is that depending upon multiple roles, the area that the check covers can be different - and the depth of check varies with each role or organisation.

I found that subscribing to the Update Service meant everything came through far quicker.

Yes, but why do you think that is? Is it because abusive men want to abuse their own relatives in preference to unrelated children? No obviously not, it's because they can access children in the family much more easily because there is frequent, probably unsupervised contact. An unrelated man who has regular access to children (and especially one with the additional risk factors of wanting close contact with children, visiting their homes, talking about inappropriate things, and volunteering at a toddler group) is going to push the risk much higher.
The 92% statistic doesn't mean if you have a choice between trusting grandad and creepy man from toddler group, pick the non family member.

That's different though. This man is not retired. We have 2 retired men who attend our local group sometimes (they do actually help rather than just hang around). My children really liked one of them and used to climb on his knee all the time. I don't think allowing that is bad if the child initiates it. As a child of emotionally distant parents I used to really value the hugs from church and scout leaders etc. It would be a sad world if that was no longer allowed.
However this situation sounds somewhat different not least as the man is of working age and is showing other inappropriate behaviour. It's the combination of factors that makes the OP worried.

All volunteers should be DBS checked - even if he is not on his own with children at the event, he becomes "known" to them and thus a safe/trusted person.

what has being held in a church got to do with it - of course no sexual abuse ever ever happens in religious institutions. 🙄

I think getting volunteers checked is still free - so aside from the admin time, it's not a cost to the organisation.

to read in a primary school you need on so it makes sense

I did this for ten years. No DBS check was required.

I have a full enhanced dbs but was never asked to get one when I helped at a toddler group as I was never alone with the children

DBS checks cost a min of £10 and each organisation sets policies. He's very unlikely to become with a child at a play group

It might not be required but it would be best practice for all volunteers to be background checked.

Ideally yes, whether they're left with children alone or not.

But DBS's can only go so far in Safeguarding to be honest.

Personally I would always go with your instincts.

First of all, I think "having reservations" and "knowing that they are DBS checked" are completely different things. The second does not stop you having the former, and if you are having the former, raise it, and don't get fobbed off by DBS check talk. I was about to say you need to assess the risk - parents are there with their children, and surely this person is not left alone with anyone's child, but actually, the post by @ThinWomansBrain has made me reconsider, and I completely agree. It is difficult. Hoping you get a good outcome.

I would think it’s very odd that someone who doesn’t have children would volunteer there?

Why?? I help run a toddler group at my church on one of my days off each week and have done for over 10 years without a child in tow. I’m in my 50s. My kids are way past toddler age. All other helpers except the employed leader come with their young children so I can do much more practically as I’m not having to divide my time (though they are great at talking to new mums etc). And I enjoy it.

The other weekly toddler group is staffed almost entirely with volunteers there without kids (ranging from those with teenagers to those with adult children to an older couple whose child died). Without them it couldn’t run. Our Sunday crèche is run by the most amazing people neither of whom have kids (but both have jobs in education).

All of us enjoy it but also want to support parents and kids and that’s why we do it.

However we are DBS checked (and have to do safeguarding training) as parents trust us and might eg ask me to keep an eye on their child whilst they run to the toilet or hold their baby whilst they do craft with their toddler. Our church requires it of all volunteers regularly working with children or vulnerable adults.

Can't be certain of what this guy's up to, of course, but paedophiles a) set themselves up in kids clubs etc b) start off with stuff that doesn't seem a big deal while c) befriending (grooming) the parents and the child.

I had a run in with a predator who ran a kids sports club for decades and therefore offended for decades. He did all these things. He even spoke with parents (including mine) about wildly inappropriate subjects in front of the kids (like this guy does), presumably as either some sort of thrill because the kid is hearing it and/or to see if the parents will object. A DBS wouldn't have done shit, he had no record until victims began to come forward in the 00s - some of the crimes that were uncovered went back to the early 80s iirc.

Yes yes, statistically my dad should be the one who got me. But he wasn't, this guy WAS.

I would think it’s very odd that someone who doesn’t have children would volunteer there?

it’s actually very common in my experience for people to continue volunteering somewhere once their kids are too old. If the timing fits for them and they enjoy it then why not?

Our local Brownie Pack was started when Brown Owl’s DD wanted to go - that was back when I was at school and she’s still going on with it.