Advice . Should toddler group volunteer be DBS checked

[Storm85]

Hi looking for some advice as unsure what to do if anything.
Ive attended a toddler group for a while and there’s a couple of helpers who help set up etc just wondering what to do regarding a male volunteer approx mid/late 40s who does this with no child there . He stays the whole time. Was told his child used to go to the group but now is like 8/9 years old but he’s stayed ever since. He just acts abit odd and I asked someone privately who told me anyone can volunteer ( usually a parent ) and no DBS check etc
I'm not really sure what I’m asking other than should this man have some sort of check etc I feel abit uncomfortable and unsure who to report my concerns to as a lot seem to think he is fantastic , he does seem nice enough just sometimes acts and says things abit strange, he is friends with the leader of the toddler group so can’t really talk to her. It is held in a church if that helps
Thank you

There will be details of who the safeguarding lead in the church is and how to contact them on a noticeboard in the church. If you can't see it, the toddler group organiser can give you their details. Failing that, if it's an Anglican Church, you can Google the diocesan safeguarding team.

You absolutely don’t need a DBS to sing songs. You’ve completely misinterpreted that.

I volunteer for an organisation which provides an activity for disabled children. We are never alone with a child. The children are accompanied by a parent or teacher at all times. We all have to be DBS checked every three years I think. The checks are not free. We don't pay the full amount but still have to pay some sort of admin fee which I think is now around £9 per application.

As a PP said, all these checks prove is that someone has not been convicted in the past. No checks can stop anyone doing something in the future.

In some ways it is all a money making exercise. One of our volunteers is a private tutor, a school governor and also volunteers elsewhere. She currently has five different RBS certificates for the different organisations.

Not saying that they should not be carried out. Just that once you have a certificate that should cover you for everything.

How do you know he hasn't been checked?

If you have any concerns I would be raising it with the church safeguarding officer. Their details would usually appear on a notice board. If you can't find them then I would be approaching the vicar.

So what exactly are the concerns?
Apart from his being male?
You say @Storm85 behaving strangely. As in?

You do know that your own Dad is about 92% more likely to abuse your child right?

PS, as others have said, he doesn't need a DBS. The group/church, whatever it is can ask volunteers to have one, but it's not a legal requirement.

If the OP has concerns they should be reported.

Yes, it’s likely this man is fine statistically, but how many times do we hear “oh yes, I always knew he was dodgy” when someone is outed as a predator. And how often are they pillar of the community types?

People shouldn’t be trying to shut down her concerns.

We have a man with no children who helps with all of our preschool groups at church. He would seem creepy initially, but after a chat, you realise he lived with nieces and nephews who are out of that stage, and he find them interesting and fun. He is fully DBS checked, has very firm boundaries about physical contact (he only high fives them) and is a great volunteer. He is the first person to make mums a cuppa and calm down a tantrum.

What a weird world. No one assumes the older ladies and mums who help are abusive. Only single men.

Of course he should have one. It’s not just about working alone with children, what if somebody predatory managed to befriend a vulnerable parent? Started grooming them in order to access the child? Offer babysitting? I know I’m being very dramatic, but this does happen.

So a completely different scenario to the OPs where she believes the man isn’t DBS checked, he acts and speaks a bit strange and allows children to sit on his knee then…

if he’s a regular helper, I think he ought to have a dbs check. The toddler group leaders should do thus to cover their backs.

This man mixes with children and the parents the whole two hours I was simply asking who if anyone I should report concerns to

You asked if he should have a DBS, not who you should report concerns to - they are two different things. The church should have easily accessible information about who their safeguarding lead is and that’s the person you would go to with any concerns.

To be fair the OP asked about reporting as well…

I'm not really sure what I’m asking other than should this man have some sort of check etc I feel abit uncomfortable and unsure who to report my concerns to as a lot seem to think he is fantastic

There’s a big document on the church of England.org website called something like safer recruitment.
it covers best practice for recruiting volunteers and paid staff and the recommended checks.

(if your church is not Anglican then I would suggest that the principles would be the same)

Interesting how some posters are of the opinion this man is probably fine and safe. However the sitting on lap scenario puts HIM at risk of accusations/misunderstandings and should be avoided even if it is ‘innocent’. If he doesn’t realise this is inappropriate then what else may he not realise? Perhaps taking the same child to the toilet whilst mum is busy with an older sibling? Not sitting unrelated children on your lap is a basic safeguarding principle has he not had even the most basic of training.
?

Given the quite concerning safeguarding issues that continue to be raised in church settings, it is important that every single person from the most innocent sweet looking granny to the most sinister looking male is subject to the same checks. That way we are all as safe as possible (taking into account that all the dbs does is show someone hasn’t been ‘caught’ doing anything)

If this gentleman is as lovely as described, he will be most happy for the appropriate leader to have any necessary conversations with him as his main priority will be to keep the children safe, surely?

we need to move away from the assumptions that anyone is probably okay and those questioning it are nasty and suspicious.

As a pp said, having a DBS doesn’t mean someone is not a risk.

Without even knowing any of his “odd” behaviour, the situation seems a bit off. Does he not work? How does he have time to regularly help at a toddler group which I assume is during working hours? How old are his children now? 10? 11? Why does he need to still be attending a toddler group? In my nearly 50 years on this planet I haven’t met a man who loves spending time with children so much that he volunteers at a church playgroup. I don’t even know any women who still volunteer at playgroups once their children are 10.

Might all be completely fine 🤷🏻‍♀️

(Abusers groom parents/adults as much as parents. Even being in proximity to children can be enough)

I used to run a church toddler group and it was pretty casual - just run by a group of mums/childminders. We didn't DBS anyone.

@Storm85
to answer the original question. The church should have a plan in place for if you can’t ask the most obvious person (in your case the man is friendly with the leader so you wouldn’t feel comfortable)

They should even have a plan if the vicar/minister is the person you have concerns about.

if you can’t see this information at the venue then in your position I would contact the minister in a low key way. I’d approach it more at this stage as being concerned for the man being misunderstood. And what would happen if another unknown volunteer (male or female) starting to attend and was also giving physical contact such as laps and cuddles to the children. I’d be asking for their guidance on this issue in particular. The church needs to be seen to have robust safeguarding principles in place.

Legally, a volunteer with no responsibility who will not be alone with vulnerable people (children/vulnerable adults) does NOT need a DBS.

The playgroup may request volunteers to have one. But legally, they don't need one.

Who should the OP report her concerns to?

The police. If she's genuinely concerned that this man is a paedophile. Obviously.

Best practice would be yes. But if he's not actually alone with children then it isn't required.

I used to run a church toddler group, and all the regular helpers were checked, although parents were responsible for their children at all times. Regular safeguarding training is also good practice. Parents who muck in and help with things like setting up/clearing up would not be checked, but if any had wanted to continue coming along after their kids had left, I think we would have asked for a DBS check at that point.

I don't see how you know that this person has not been DBS checked. If you're concerned, contact the person responsible for safeguarding at the church (their name should be displayed somewhere, and best practice is that it is not anyone who is running children's activities), and ask whether all their children's work volunteers are DBSed and given safeguarding training.

Does the Church have a part in organising this or does someone rent the rooms from the Church organisation? It makes a difference.
Whilst it may (may not) not be legally required it is Best Practice to have everyone checked.

I have 2 one for Children and one for Vulnerable Adults.

Churches have a hideous history of sexual abuse. As a result they are now usually very hot on child protection.
If this is a Church group them all volunteers should be DBS checked and (at least at our Church) also need a personal reference.
As others have said DBS only means not yet caught. Therefore all volunteers with children need to be aware of their actions and behaviours and the person in charge of playgroups or safeguarding leads need to be responsible for ensuring that all volunteers are properly briefed on maintaining boundaries and safeguarding .This includes interaction outside the group so a volunteer shouldn't 'befriend' a mother and child and go to their house without documenting it.
This all seems extreme but without safeguarding rules predetors can act.
Obviously this helper may be harmless but unfortunately we never know until it is too late.

Thanks all I have found and emailed the church safeguarding. I’ve been going a while to the group so it’s not like I’ve suddenly judged him . He doesn’t work on that day , or at all ? He attends every week it’s on . It may be innocent but still someone mentioned about vulnerable parents and it made me realise that yes he has befriended several single mothers and I’m aware a couple meet up with him outside the group he’s been to there house etc.
Odd behaviour includes talking about cross dressing etc inappropriate at a toddler group
Better safe than sorry .

We don’t need to protect men from others thinking their actions are strange and questioning this as far too often this is how predatory men operate

we need to protect children

raise your concerns op never be concerned that you are being over protective or judgemental (god forbid) when the most vulnerable are concerned

How typical befriending single mothers and pushing boundaries

not acceptable his interests are possibly the single mums but they are not there for him to hit on

no doubt he is seen as wonderful by some for being so involved when women who do three times as much as he does are barely mentioned