to be fed up with people claiming RB can't have been a rapist because women were throwing themselves at him?

[Greensleeves]

It's such fundamentally flawed thinking. Rapists don't rape because they can't get sex any other way. That's what incels would have us believe - that rape happens because women are frigid meanies and drive men to desperation - but it's arrant nonsense.

Rapists rape because they like it. They enjoy our fear, our powerlessness, the struggling and tears and the feeling of total dominance and control. Often normal consensual sex doesn't hit the spot for them no matter how much of it is available. Rape really isn't that closely related to consensual sex. It's much more like beating the shit out of someone, or verbally abusing someone until they're a quivering mess. It's an act of violence, it's about power, and it absolutely isn't something only sex-starved desperate men do.

I could be wrong but suspect this might open the flood gates

She'd been groomed. They were "dating". He sent multiple cars. It wasn't just a one off where she went to his house with no idea what might happen. As adults we can hear about that, a guy in his 30s having cars pick up a 16 year old girl from school and bring her to his house, and see how wrong it is. One on occasion, when the taxi driver found out how old she was, she says he pleaded with her not to go in, and said that he'd take her home for free, but she said she was fine. In he head, her older boyfriend was sending cars to pick her up - what a nice thing to do, it would seem so considerate.

The word provocatively should never be used in association with clothes.

Clothes do not have the power to provoke crime. It's a ridiculously outdated idea that they do.

Did you mean to divert the negative focus from the alleged rapist to his wife? Funnily enough, not all sex offenders, murderers and other abusers are single.

I find it laughable that so many people, including on this thread, say a variation of ‘well if all these women really were raped, why didn’t they report it to the police and let the court decide?’

Between all the serving police officers’ raping and murdering, strip searching of children at school, photographing of female murder victims and the astonishingly low prosecution rates, not to mention the trauma and degradation of being aggressively interrogated by the defence’s legal representation and even lower conviction rate, I think I’d take my chances for some form of justice via the media too, thanks.

Clothes do not have the power to provoke crime. It's a ridiculously outdated idea that they do.
Absolutely true but respect?

Sorry OP as I actually meant to post my earlier comment on thread querying why RB’s wife married him 🙄 but accidentally posted on your thread instead!

FWIW I’m 100% on the same page as you in your OP.

Controllers and abusers in whatever form often have a persona in public and are very different in private.

For people commenting on women's clothes, believe me it makes no difference to these men. I worked in a male dominated industry for many years, wearing an ugly uniform and a hi-viz. It didn't matter. Men still made sexual comments about my body and touched me inappropriately. If they're going to behave a certain way, they're going to do it regardless of what a woman is wearing.

She was "dating" him and had previously had consensual sex do I doubt she thought she was going to be subjected to a frightening sexual assault.

Most rapes are committed by a man known to the victim, hopefully you don't think they are to blame for what the men, they trusted, did to them.

It took me years to understand that not only did my rapist know full well I didn't consent, he knew I was terrified... and he liked it. My fear was delicious to him.

Rape is not sex. Rape is power and abuse and control. Rape is a crime of violence.

Everything in the OP.

Brilliant post. I can totally relate to this. The whole mindset around sex when I was growing up was that it was something that all men wanted, all the time and that it was your job to walk this difficult line between withholding it and giving it to them and your failure to police this line was a reflection on you, both in terms of your quality and your morals.

I am lucky never to have been raped but I have been sexually assaulted and also I have, like you, had countless incidents of having technically consensual but not very much wanted sex with partners to maintain good relations. (I know there's an argument that this is rape too but I think there is a grey area: it's the kind of sex which you can't really be arsed with but know you can get into it if you motivate yourself).

It took me until I was in my 30s to feel that I had permission to not want sex with someone I loved. And I'm a raging feminist and not a people pleaser so I can see how widespread this is.

I think our era (90s through to the mid 00s) was the worst of all worlds in some ways: you had the licentiousness and decadence of the 1960s with huge amounts of drugs and sex combined with this ladette thing that women were all expected to be total cool girls and "bang up for it", but the feminism was much less developed then and men still didn't really think much about women as independent sentient beings.

Agreed.

Some women were likely (very) willing.
Others initially willing but then forced to do things they didn't want to.
Some were never willing to start with.

'No' should be heard and acted on AT ANY POINT.

Reporting is the woman's choice, but only if she feels able, supported and believed.

It's disgusting how many people are victim shaming/blaming.

Women dress so provocatively onstage - whilst demanding respect.
I still have problems with this. Men don't dress this way. It's fashion but I think it's difficult.

Are men so feeble that the mere sight of female flesh turns them into out of control animals? If that were true then wouldn't beaches be the most dangerous places for women?

Can you describe he kind of clothing women should wear to make them worthy of respect?

Are you able to explain why a burglar might opportunistically rape an 80 year old woman, tucked up in bed, in her own home? What did she do to be unworthy of respect?

The interpretation of any meaning of clothing is only really active on the side of the person making the judgment. Clothing does not have innate value as respectful or not - that is entirely down to the interpretation of the person looking. If I wore a power suit to meet a group of people for whom power suits have never been seen and never held any association with business and money, it would be worthless.

So if we're saying a short skirt means you will not be respected (which I personally don't subscribe to) then the phrase provocative clothing does not really describe what is going on. Unrespected clothing or misinterpretted clothing would be better - something than places the error of judgement where is belongs, on the viewer.

Provocative suggests the clothing is doing something, when it's really the person viewing the clothing and making resulting value assumptions about it.

I'd also disgaree about men on stage not wearing revealling clothing - which I think is what PP were getting at. Iggy Pop's transparent trousers come to mind. Red Hot Chili's wearing only socks. Justin Bieber stripping on stage for a fashion show. I'm not even that literate about modern performers (hence the age old references!) so I am sure there are loads more examples.

And yup, I totally recognise the weird attitude from the 90s+ ... that impossible to meet standard where cool girls liked sex and were open minded about it but to be too open minded meant you were asking for it. That boys could not be expected to control themselves if you 'led them on'. And, for what it's worth, where a school uniform on a teenager was considered 'provocative' clothing.

I was thinking last night about a memory in a club where I'd been talking to a man. Just talking about normal every day things. He asked if I wanted to 'go outside for a walk' and I said no thanks. He grabbed my by the neck and called me a prick tease.

The bouncer saw and asked him to step away and then turned to me and said something along the lines of 'perhaps a pretty girl like you shouldn't chat to men if you don't want the consequences'.

That was the 90s. You were a prude if you didn't go out and have fun and asking for it if you did.

Yes, I agree with what you say - but RB got a standing ovation at his last show only a couple of days ago.
Dressing more conservatively might help to bring the rest of the population with us - instead at the moment they can say ' they dress like hookers what do they expect'. Those body suits or whatever they're called last time I was in town I saw 2 women in them - it's crazy imv.

God the rape myths this has had trotted out are depressing, they should be considered dated by now, just ignorant rubbish, even a couple on here, like the poster above referring to clothing. Do you think no women wearing a burka has ever been raped? Because that might be news for the Taliban.

I cannot for the life of me see why women would "throw" themselves at RB. He is horrid, effeminate, flamboyant and sleazy looking. Looks like he needs a good bath.

@Superwooman can you hear yourself? You sound straight off the pages of The Handmaid’s Tale. It’s really concerning.

In your opinion.

This Russel brand stuff has brought out so many disturbing and ignorant views. I had to explain to another woman that even if you go to the home of someone that you’ve previously slept with then it’s still not the woman’s fault if they’re raped and that men who are not rapists do understand the concept that consent on one occasion doesn’t mean consent on every occasion and that they can ignore someone saying no. An actual grown woman

It’s all so bloody depressing.

You both put into words how I feel about my own experiences in the late 90s and early 00's. It has really made me think as is so at odds with how I view relationships and intimacy now, yet in my naivety - and I will say innocence - I can see I was sometimes taken advantage of yet didn't say no.

I am staggered at the situations I put myself in though thinking back. Music, travel, drink and drugs all playing a huge part... It's an era I am regularly nostalgic about but taking off the rose tinted specs I know for sure friends of mine were raped and it was written off as bad drunken sex. 😔

Some may judge and wonder how these women even considered entertaining someone like RB, but I can see how these situations come about - with women often then gaslighting themselves into thinking they somehow consented or are responsible.

80 year-old women get raped. Tiny babies get raped. Should they be 'dressed conservatively '. FFS, what does that even mean?
I swear to god that we're going backwards as women. Every time I think we might be getting somewhere we get pushed back down again.

I can't either.
Could anyone try to explain his previous appeal?