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Russell Brand - everyone knew

1000 replies

Mooshamoo · 18/09/2023 17:06

I was watching the comedian Katherine Ryan say to Louis theroux that a British comedian is a sexual perpetrator. It is now believed that she was talking about Russell brand. She said on the video "when it eventually comes out about these type of people, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, this unmentionable British personality, it turns out that everyone knew. Everyone knew. ".

I was wondering did anyone on here on mumsnet know anything about Russell brand? A lot of us lived in London when her was living there. And many women on here would have been a similar age to Russell brand . I lived in London for a year and I saw Russell brand out on a night out once. That was the extent of it. I was wondering did anyone on here have any experience with him, or know about a friend/acquaintance that had any experiences with him.

OP posts:
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16
MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:46

I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole of Brand research. He went to Italia Conti (how the fuck did he get in?!) and apparently was sexually abused as a child and was treated for bulimia as a teen after his mum was diagnosed with cancer.

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:47

I don’t want to give him the hits so won’t look on YT but can anyone tell me what are his conspiracy theories about?!

hamstersarse · 18/09/2023 23:48

MartinChuzzlewit · 18/09/2023 23:46

I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole of Brand research. He went to Italia Conti (how the fuck did he get in?!) and apparently was sexually abused as a child and was treated for bulimia as a teen after his mum was diagnosed with cancer.

I also read today that his dad made him sleep with a prostitute when he was 16

That is fucked up

whatnet · 18/09/2023 23:49

CherryMaDeara · Today 23:44

whatnet · Today 23:40

The current ‘supply’ the mother of his children is a victim too. She will be so gaslighted she won’t be able to see the wood for the trees. You can only hope she has a very strong family network that will allow her to get distance from the situation, perspective, and some very good counselling, for the sake of her, and her children. It is pretty impressive how much he has built a following to distract from the truth. He is all about the ‘truth’ though 🤔🤥
Her sister Kirsty Gallacher liked RB’s video statement on Instagram with a big heart and then she deleted it.

I hope it’s because she realised his true nature.

Sadly, I think it was more to do with self preservation. I really hope this is a catalyst for change but sadly, nothing changes. Women and children (predominantly girls) are abused and murdered in the UK on a daily basis and nothing changes.

user9630721458 · 18/09/2023 23:49

@MartinChuzzlewit I thought he was doing yoga and mental health stuff now?

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:53

whatnet · 18/09/2023 23:49

CherryMaDeara · Today 23:44

whatnet · Today 23:40

The current ‘supply’ the mother of his children is a victim too. She will be so gaslighted she won’t be able to see the wood for the trees. You can only hope she has a very strong family network that will allow her to get distance from the situation, perspective, and some very good counselling, for the sake of her, and her children. It is pretty impressive how much he has built a following to distract from the truth. He is all about the ‘truth’ though 🤔🤥
Her sister Kirsty Gallacher liked RB’s video statement on Instagram with a big heart and then she deleted it.

I hope it’s because she realised his true nature.

Sadly, I think it was more to do with self preservation. I really hope this is a catalyst for change but sadly, nothing changes. Women and children (predominantly girls) are abused and murdered in the UK on a daily basis and nothing changes.

Sadly I think you’re right about the self-preservation.

On the catalyst, I thought we had that after Savile, but clearly not. Nothing changes.

The rise of violent porn means more danger for women.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 23:53

user9630721458 · 18/09/2023 23:35

@RedToothBrush Very interesting! So it would be more difficult to justify investigating a well respected and influential person with a pristine reputation? From a journalist's point of view, I mean.

From reading the Reynolds Defence points yes, I think so because it takes into account the effect of a false claims.

1) The seriousness of the allegation. The more serious the charge, the more the public is misinformed and the individual harmed, if the allegation is not true.

Brand in making jokes about rape and associating himself with sexual acts which are dubious and then being seen to try to kiss women on camera who try and get away from him, has put himself into something of a more vulnerable position.

The rape allegations are put into a different context to someone who has been married, has always had a wholesome life and preaches family values. There isn't this huge pile of clips of public behaviour.

Because the misinformation is effectively lesser in extent to the truth. And you can't argue the level of reputational damage is as large (viewers who see him joke about raping someone might think it's a public admission rather than a joke).

The 'distortion' of a wrong accusations is much less.

And it's easier to argue the point about wider standards in public life to justify your public interest part of the Reynolds Defence and duty to publish in good faith for the benefit of the wider population (it's pretty shit to joke about rape, it's pretty shit to be consentually womanising multiple audience members, it's pretty shit to try and kiss someone on camera who clearly doesn't want to be kissed from her body language) because it's so bloody glaringly obvious on video with the benefit of hindsight and passage of time (post #metoo).

Brand profited from this behaviour/act regardless of whether there was more sinister stuff there. He can't simply just disown that at this point.

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:54

hamstersarse · 18/09/2023 23:48

I also read today that his dad made him sleep with a prostitute when he was 16

That is fucked up

Whilst his dad was in bed with 2 other prostitutes.

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 23:55

hamstersarse · 18/09/2023 23:48

I also read today that his dad made him sleep with a prostitute when he was 16

That is fucked up

Dad was in the room too. With two other prostitutes.

Dad is defending his son.

letthemalldoone · 18/09/2023 23:58

hamstersarse · 18/09/2023 23:48

I also read today that his dad made him sleep with a prostitute when he was 16

That is fucked up

Worse than that - apparently his father was shagging 2 prostitutes at the same time in an adjacent bed!

Also, he was watching porn in the living room when he was at primary school while his father had sex in his bedroom.

Anyone growing up with a lifestyle like that has to be warped. No excuse though.

VivienneDelacroix · 18/09/2023 23:59

regularmumnotacoolmum · 18/09/2023 17:59

@lifeturnsonadime except it's not a child legally. It wasn't uncommon for year 11 and sixth formers to be dating men in their late 20's and early 30's back then. Reading the stuff about pretending to be family etc brought back memories of high school. Girls often said their boyfriends were the cousin of a friend or the brother of a distant friend in order to appease parents and give their relationship some sort of legitimacy and credibility. If that was to go on now, it wouldn't be allowed and alarm bells would ring loud and clear. The issue of consent can't and shouldn't be minimised but the age thing didn't sound like an unfamiliar scenario.

Bloody hell- just because it's familiar territory that grown men use and abuse schoolgirls doesn't make anything about it right. As women we know that the law is rarely on our side (look at the rape conviction stats), that society is rarely on our side, and even other women are rarely on our side.
The 2000s wasn't another place, we weren't all merrily turning a blind eye. Some of us were trying to safeguard these girls in these "relationships" even if others were content to accept and condone it as "not uncommon".

ehupo7 · 19/09/2023 00:01

CherryMaDeara · 18/09/2023 23:44

Her sister Kirsty Gallacher liked RB’s video statement on Instagram with a big heart and then she deleted it.

I hope it’s because she realised his true nature.

She didn’t, it’s still there

bombastix · 19/09/2023 00:01

When you read the stories about Brand and his father it suggests he was a victim. His narcissistic behaviour is a defence to being treated like shit by his father in all likelihood. Porn from your dad? That's a criminal offence.

Too late to really mend from that.

user9630721458 · 19/09/2023 00:02

@RedToothBrush Thank you. I take that to mean that journalists would find it very difficult to justify investigating allegations against someone in a powerful position, with a clean reputation and public image. I think there must be cases where they might want to, but it's too risky.

WinterDeWinter · 19/09/2023 00:07

hamstersarse · 18/09/2023 23:40

It doesn't surprise me that people 'knew' but did nothing. This story is played out across the land as anyone who has been raped by a 'great guy' knows full well - this is not just the TV industry, it is society.

They are charming, quick witted, know how to lie effectively, make 'jokes' that are half truths that work to disarm you. Any normal functioning moral person has no chance in being absolutely confident in making or backing up an accusation. RB is almost identikit my exh and I guarantee you he is not in TV or some powerful media exec yet he is still untouchable. I have literally told people who know him exactly what he did, and they sort of believe it, but they still can't quite square it with the ball of energy and enthusiasm and 'humour' that he presents, along with the 'half truth' jokes about being an awful person. I can hardly bear to watch RB on these clips as it is so like my exh, and yet he has never had consequences and never will.

My generous explanation for why people do not actually commit to backing up their gut feelings and actually making complaints in these circumstances is that as humans, we have a bias to believe people, we can't face that people are lying to us, we just prefer to believe that people tell the truth. That, alongside the fact that good people find it very difficult to understand there are genuinely bad people out there who harm people deliberately and without remorse; so many people find it hard to make the leap in their minds that people can be bad, they have been taught to think of the best in people, give them the benefit of the doubt, that these men, not just RB, continue to get off scott free.

Ironically, I think RB was actually quite good in recent years in sniffing out bad people. I always trust psychos to sniff out bad people - for the reasons given above, good people are really bad at sniffing out bad people.

im so sorry this happened to you, but thank you for such an insightful post. It makes perfect sense.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 00:17

user9630721458 · 19/09/2023 00:02

@RedToothBrush Thank you. I take that to mean that journalists would find it very difficult to justify investigating allegations against someone in a powerful position, with a clean reputation and public image. I think there must be cases where they might want to, but it's too risky.

Precisely.

The public interest angle is much more obvious with the Brand case and based on significant amounts of video and audio which bring into clear question production decisions and editorial decisions. He's made their life easier.

A squeaky clean person doesn't have as much dirt lying around, and that's precisely why they have the squeaky clean reputation in the first place. So there's less publicly available content to build a contrary public interest story about wider inappropriate sexual conduct from. (That's doesn't have to be rape. Just ill-advised and/or inappropriate).

JunkShopper · 19/09/2023 00:26

CauliflowerBouquet · 18/09/2023 23:42

Yes, definitely. I know some people who slept with him. Girls would like up after his gigs and he would choose amongst them. Grim man.

Grim because he slept with people who were offering to sleep with him>

thirdfiddle · 19/09/2023 00:28

I thought it /was/ known. I remember seeing some of his comedy and finding him funny then hearing stuff about him and thinking he was well dodgy and I didn't want to watch him any more. I can't remember exactly what was known though - maybe about the teenager 'girlfriend'? That would have been enough on its own. No personal experience but I had vaguely thought the reason I hadn't noticed him doing anything for years was because he was disgraced.

Chocolatchip · 19/09/2023 00:51

RedToothBrush · 18/09/2023 22:43

No he will struggle to take C4 or The Times 'to the cleaners'.

For the benefit who haven't seen me post this on another thread:

Even if RB is tried and found not guilty of rape, this DOESN'T mean he would be successful suing the press.

The Times and C4 can justify this in various ways.

Brand's behaviour doesn't really satisfy employment standards we would expect from public broadcasters. Using Brand as an example is a much lower threshold to argue in terms of why there should be a public debate about Brand in particular.

They also have case law on their side in terms of the public interest.

David Banks AT DBanksy
Remember, media law geeks, that The Sunday Times and #Dispatches are relying on the public interest in their investigation into Russell Brand. 30 years ago the ST published the story that led to the courts establishing the Reynolds Defence for public interest journalism.

Replaced now by the statutory defence of publication in the public interest in the Defamation Act 2013, the ‘10 steps’ of the Reynolds Defence are still a useful guide to journalists working on issues of public interest that might face legal challenge

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_v_Times_Newspapers_Ltd

The premise of this as a defence is as follows:
The case provided the Reynolds defence, which could be raised where it was clear that the journalist had a duty to publish an allegation even if it turned out to be wrong.

And the ten basic points are:

Depending on the circumstances, the matters to be taken into account include the following. The comments are illustrative only.

1) The seriousness of the allegation. The more serious the charge, the more the public is misinformed and the individual harmed, if the allegation is not true.
2) The nature of the information, and the extent to which the subject-matter is a matter of public concern.
3) The source of the information. Some informants have no direct knowledge of the events. Some have their own axes to grind, or are being paid for their stories.
4) The steps taken to verify the information.
5) The status of the information. The allegation may have already been the subject of an investigation which commands respect.
6) The urgency of the matter. News is often a perishable commodity.
7) Whether comment was sought from the plaintiff. He may have information others do not possess or have not disclosed. An approach to the plaintiff will not always be necessary.
8) Whether the article contained the gist of the plaintiff's side of the story.
9) The tone of the article. A newspaper can raise queries or call for an investigation. It need not adopt allegations as statements of fact.
10) The circumstances of the publication, including the timing.

This list is not exhaustive. The weight to be given to these and any other relevant factors will vary from case to case. Any disputes of primary fact will be a matter for the jury, if there is one.

Arguably, there is a case about the role of the public broadcasters and the status and behaviour of stars, which was not challenged and was to the detriment of female staff and any females the star may have come into contact with (hence the need to include a lot of what some posters have called 'extra fluff'. It's not. It's about standards in public life of those in positions of power and authority - that's Brand AND his managers at TV and radio).

You also have the point about the female comedian WhatsApp safety group and the wider argument about women in comedy not feeling safe.

And more generally the fact that women in the media industry do not feel able to report rape or sexual assault by any star due to power imbalances and the risk of THEIR reputational damage and loss of career. And the total lack of trust in the criminal justice system when it comes to rape.

And THESE are really important considerations in the nature of the allegations and the way they've been presented. And the strength of any case Brand might counter without criminal case against him or even with a firm not guilty verdict. BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT BRAND AS AN INDIVIDUAL. It's about the wider context of his behaviour and how even lesser behaviour was tolerated and ignored over a long period of time due to a pursuit of ratings over all else.

Thats why they included stuff like the discussion about removing all female production staff to 'protect them' and allow their star to continue. This shouldn't even have been a serious consideration. It would be unthinkable in every other industry as it's straight up institutional sexism at work.

C4 and The Times might get accused of failing on certain points over trying to over hype the story. I strongly suspect that the women concerned haven't received a penny for giving their stories in line with some of the considerations above. With regards to timing, some will argue that it's a conspiracy to shut up Brand cos he's after the establishment but I doubt that would stand up to much in court. Indeed the timing could work in C4 and The Times favour precisely because Brand already no longer is working on mainstream TV in the UK so there is less for him to lose from loss of existing TV work.

Brand's lawyers know this. C4 and The Times know this. And also have a point that will be exceptionally difficult to strike down in court in Brand's favour.

I do wish that people would stop thinking it's trial by media. It's about a lot more than that and a lot more than Brand himself. There is a real failure to understand many of the points made by The Times and C4 and the importance of these points.

I do think Brand would be foolish to go to court. He is a self confessed sex addict. His own words aren't exactly going to help him in terms of a good character reference. (Which also ties in with the extent of damage to his reputation - he can't argue that as much as he was never squeaky clean). He'd end up with a lot of stress and a big legal bill. He may try and to it, in order to enhance his status as anti-establishment and to try and 'score a hit against the main stream media by costing them a lot' but that's going to be expensive and risky and unlikely to result in a net gain.

The Reynolds Defence is really quite robust even though on the face of it, it might sound like it's protects the all powerful mass media. It requires a lot of hoops and work to meet the threshold in a court. And that's a MASSIVE balance in power whether others want to realise it or not - because it's centring the public interest - ordinary people not celebrities nor institutions. Media organisations have to PROVE its for the benefit of the public not them as an organisation.

If this opens up #metoo for the comedy circuit, it pretty much nails the Reynolds Defence for the The Times and C4 to the mast to a large extent.

There IS meticulous work by The Times and C4 to build a story which covers a number of themes and narratives to blow open wider discussions, in which Brand is only part of the story but is also crucial to its telling and necessitates him being named to illustrate certain issues.

A well reasoned and informative post. Thank you.

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 00:59

Validus · 18/09/2023 17:24

It’s funny how ‘everyone’ says they knew when allegations are aired. Yet they were silent before…

People have been discussing him on the internet in veiled yet obvious if you think about it ways, for many years - so even I "knew" something was up. I can't say how long I've known they were discussing RB, but it's been several years.

Women on the comedy circuit knew something, as they had a whatsapp I think warning/discussion group centred on him, the comedian Daniel Sloss said. I think people knew he was a sex pest, not the specifics - though I am sure some people, perhaps a lot of people, did know the specifics as they were his victims in one way or another.

Then he we are, back to victim blaming - very popular by women/mothers on MN, some of whom presumably have daughters.

MartinChuzzlewit · 19/09/2023 01:05

user9630721458 · 18/09/2023 23:49

@MartinChuzzlewit I thought he was doing yoga and mental health stuff now?

It’s other people who’ve mentione the conspiracy theory videos but yeah he is into the ‘spiritual’ life it seems

Chocolatchip · 19/09/2023 01:06

I heard stories from work associates 15 years or so ago. I didn't know enough to do something about it though. I just knew enough to despise him and warn friends to be cautious of him in the workplace and associated social scene.

He's very litigious

The legal system doesn't support victims never mind those who heard something.

You can't blame people for not speaking up

Blame those who surrounded and supported him.

greenhydrangea · 19/09/2023 01:07

Mooshamoo · 18/09/2023 17:44

That's what Katherine Ryan said. But why is he seen as more litigious than other people?

Surely anyone could get a lawyer to defend themselves. I think that maybe victims were sadly just too scared of him as a person. He is scary

There's this. He was pretty quick to shut her down.

Russell Brand and Jemima Khan win masseuse injunction - BBC News

Jumpingthruhoops · 19/09/2023 01:09

lifeturnsonadime · 18/09/2023 17:42

And as much as I think he’s a total sleazeball I think he’s as much right to anonymity as his accusers/victims.

This is interesting to me.

Why should someone who is abusing women and abused children and has used a position of power to do so have a right to anonymity?

Why? Because mud sticks - he'll forever be known as a 'rapist' now whether he's found guilty of any such crime or not.

At the moment, these are just accusations. He's entitled to a fair trial in a court of law, not a trial by media.

TrishM80 · 19/09/2023 01:13

Probably everyone in the entertainment and comedy industry "knew" but I doubt the ordinary Joe Soap on the street did, how would we?!

I always felt he was a creep, a weirdo and a sleazeball, but I never followed his life closely enough to know what sort of fucked up shit he might have been doing in the background!

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