To be really upset that nursery have assumed this is the reason...

[Jc56]

My son is nearly 4 and has been attending the same nursery since 18 months old, his older sister also went here. He goes Monday to Friday and has made strong friendships with another boy his age and his cousin who also attends so he tends to just play with them 2 which nursery have told me many times but they didn't say it was a problem.

Last year, he was friends with an Asian boy who's now left for school. His key worker is Asian and they have a BRILLIANT relationship, she's absolutely amazing with him.

So I was really taken a back today when I collected him and the nursery manager asked if she could have a word with me. She said today, they was doing an activity which involved holding hands with other children and DS friend & cousin wasn't in this particular activity. She said he wouldn't hold hands with any Asian children and maybe it's because he doesn't have many friends outside of nursery who are Asian or that they have a different skin colour so he's unsure 🤔

I didn't even know how to respond, I did point out he's never been keen on interacting with ALL the children and he has just had a few strong friendships. It is not unusual for him to not want to hold hands with other children.

It's really upset me that I felt she was insinuating DS purposely wouldn't hold hands with these children because they have a different skin colour to him, he's a child! And he has made friends with children of different races not that it matters to me or DS so I'm really just baffled why this came out of the blue today. She said they've never had "this" problem with him before now. I'm not sure whether to speak to DS about it or not, the manager said she hasn't mentioned it to him?

I cant understand why she's decided that because he wouldn't hold hands with other children she's concluded it must be because they are Asian 🤔🤔🤔

Tbh I’d seriously consider moving him. If that’s their conclusion then they don’t sound like they know much about children.

Then again I might be biased as I had a terrible time with a nursery a good number of years ago when my DS2 was 3.5. He was pushed off a slide by two boys unseen by the staff and ended up with a large cut on his head. He described them as “the boy with the orange hair and the boy with the chocolate face”.

As I was collecting him to take him to have his head stitched the nursery manager was asking me to sign a form about his racist comment. They put the comment on his file, stated it would stay on even when he went to school and about two weeks later I removed him when they wanted a meeting about his refusal to “engage with children of different ethnicities” - because the first time he saw the child who’d been involved he wouldn’t play with him…

Even the child’s mother told the nursery they were being ridiculous. She removed her child as well over their handling of the situation.

Wow that's terrible..and very frightening!

Wow that's awful!

This is why I'm stuck, he's been there so long, DD went there, the other staff are incredible. I could honestly rave about them all day. I'm going to see If this happens again then have a think about moving him. I've not had a reply to my message yet off her.

Of course that is what she was insinuating.

Ask for clarification of how she feels best this should be handled, with his keyworker at the meeting too.

I would answer by saying "By 'Asian', do you mean Israeli? Sri Lankan? Korean? Kazakhstani? I'm afraid in our household we find it somewhat offensive to others to make sweeping generalisations as regards people's ethnicity or nationality".

It really doesn't sound good, tbh, I'd also be questioning how much 'encouragement' it took to get him to finally hold hands. It sounds like it went on for a bit if he refused to hold hands with a number of children, and had to be convinced to do so.

I don't think I'd be very happy about my child clearly not wanting to physically touch or be physically touched at all, and they've hassled him into going against his own boundaries. That's not something I'd want him to be taught.

Could they not have offered for him to hold an adult's hand if it was crucial - like a walking crocodile on a trip - or do something solo like colouring if he didn't want to join a particular activity?

I don't think I'd be very happy about my child clearly not wanting to physically touch or be physically touched at all, and they've hassled him into going against his own boundaries. That's not something I'd want him to be taught.

Id also have an issue with this.

Why was he required to hold hands with another child?

Were they out and it was a safety issue? If it was I’d have expected an adult to take his hand as a unwilling/non-compliant child is a risk.

if it wasn’t a safety thing then why was he hassled into holding hands with someone?

My friend got called into school and was told her reception age son was being racist. There were two children in the class called Sam, one was mixed race and the other was caucasian. Her son was friends with both of them and called them Sam Brown and Sam White! The school asked about, how race was discussed at home, and if he continued to say Sam Brown, he would be excluded! But saying Sam White was ok. The child was 4 1/2, he was saying what he saw. All the children involved were ok with the names, it was the adults making it something that it wasn’t. My friend was mortified and also very confused. There’s really not an easy way to explain this to a four year old.

That's ridiculous. I think it's really impressive that your toddler worked out that the child would be the most likely 'parent' to the doll.

I mean, it's literal biology that a black person is likely (almost certain) to have a black child, assuming they're the bio parent.

Was wondering how long it would be before someone came up with this. So are you saying a child of 2/3 is inherently racist, or that OP is racist and he’s learned it from her ?

I'd be really cross over this.

A 4 year old is too young to be racist

To a 4 year old, people are either kind, unkind or indifferent. They ask questions about differences about people in the same way they would question differences about the food you put on a plate. Knowledge.

Your son clearly didn't want to hold hands with anyone.

By making this comment they are insinuating that YOU have taught him racist values! Alternatively, the key worker hasn't got a clue how the minds of a 4 year old work and I'd question their understanding of whatever training they've received to make such an odd comment.

This is pretty racist to be honest. Kids say what they see but it's school and parent responsibility to correct children on how to behave. Nicknames stick- being called Sam Brown is a bit like Charlie Fat, or Dave Short, or Freddie Yellow, Bobbie Wheelchair, Alex big nose. Imagine going through your whole school life being called a name that essentially ties your identity to something that makes you stick out when you just want to blend in and be accepted. Of course they'll say they don't mind- they want to be liked.

They’re insinuating your nursery-age child is racist? Jesus fucking Christ.

I’m not in the UK but the crucial thing for me would be that a nursery teacher forced (or strongly encouraged) a child to hold hands with someone they did not want to hold hands with.

Wow - talk about Big Brother is watching you.

This is very worrying. The huge leaps to judgement and accusation from very little evidence, and poor little nursery kids - they can't even use perfectly good descriptive words without being branded mini-racists. Unless a child was using derogatory language (racist insults) I would be understanding about saying someone is brown and someone is white. They're tots, for goodness sake.

I'm sure most nursery staff are reasonable people, but this has triggered a memory from 20-odd years ago when my children were at that age. I felt so upset by the judgement of the nursery teacher, who had clearly formed a view that we were a snooty middle-class family who needed taking down a peg or two. It got to the stage where I had butterflies every time I went to collect my daughter, just dreading the comments.

On one occasion I went in to see they'd done a display of pictures of mums with a comment by the children about their mum. My daughter's said 'My mum only does work'. I was so hurt! I was known amongst my friends as someone who was always doing activities and crafts etc etc with my children and others. If I'd been the teacher (I was a teacher, but not nursery) I'd have chosen another more positive comment from a child - I heard plenty of similar things from my students, but didn't put them up on a display! Lots of similar put-downs followed. Oh, and she was heard to call across to a parent one day (about another nursery child - not theirs) 'Yes, but I think he must be autistic!'

She was a cow - sorry, but it's true! I reiterate that I know most nursery staff aren't as horrible, mean and unprofessional, but it is very dangerous for people to rush to judgement about things small children say.

We've had similar from nursery. I was called in when son had recently started. He was age 3. He didn't know anyone's names so would describe them.
We had the
'boy with the round face'
'girl with snot'
'girl with spots(freckles)'
and 'the boy with the black skin'

I was asked why he refers to this child as having black skin, I explained he doesn't know anyones name so just describes them all by what they look like. The child in question is black, is he indeed correct in his description?
This was the only description they had a problem with.

I’d be telling the nursery manager that you want to see their child protection policy, particularly in regards to coercing a child to hold hands or touch anyone against their will. I’d also be strongly pointing out that you respect your DS choices about whether he holds hands and you consider her forcing the issue to be quite a serious matter.
The child protection issues totally override her racist comments. Make it clear you see it as unacceptable and an attempt to undermine your beliefs in body autonomy. ( if she persists a mention of adults in authority not respecting the boundaries leave the child open to grooming- that should shake her)

I haven't got an answer for you, but my son at about four said "why are there so many dark skinned people" walking past a black family. He also said he didn't like a black man on TV because of his hair (dreads) I was mortified and had serious discussions with him.
Thankfully now several years down the line we've not had anything since.

ambitchious · Today 14:11

I’m not in the UK but the crucial thing for me would be that a nursery teacher forced (or strongly encouraged) a child to hold hands with someone they did not want to hold hands with.

I agree with this. I was a shy child at that age and dreaded the 'hold hands with your partner' moments. I don't think they should be forced. Some like it, some don't. What I've read above makes me wonder if the do it now as some kind of test - and read too much into what they observe!!!

I'm really sorry if I have offended it was not my intention, writing Asian children, they are Chinese and Pakistani children at nursery though I'm unsure who DS was being asked to hold hands with, it wasn't a trip or anything so it wasn't for safety. The manager just told me it was Asian children he wouldn't hold hands with.

I'm so upset she seems to have assumed I've taught him racist things as I definitely haven't! And as he's been there so long and loves his key worker I dont understand why she drew this conclusion, I'm still waiting for a reply from her

dp said maybe they have had a child who's has racist parents and they've encountered problems at nursery and she has assumed the same with us (from such a small incident!) But that's just tarnishing everyone with the same brush

I am annoyed about them not respecting his boundaries too, he just didn't want to hold hands. He was happy to stand next to everyone he just didn't want to touch (which like I said is very normal for him he's only affectionate with a handful of other children & adults)

I would want to talk to the school about why he was being pressured to hold hands in the first place. Was it a safety issue? if it was for a game, he should not have been pressured at all.

His right to control his body still needs to be balanced, though admittedly the teacher can’t realistically figure solve a complicated logic puzzle to allow every child to hold their best friend’s hand every time the children take a walk.

I’ve seen schools use walking ropes with handles for each child to hold and I suspect this is part of the reason.

wow. Take him out asap. She’s batshit.

even if your son was refusing to hold hands with a kid because of something like their hair colour or skin colour, he’s not a racist! He’s a child. Plus if he had learned racism from at home, talking to the parents isn’t going to do much to help is it?

honestly I’d be so pissed. I’d be kicking up the biggest fuss. How dare they try to brand your family as racist because a toddler refused to hold hands with another kid? And why are they forcing him to hold hands?

leave a review so everyone can see they’re insane and put him somewhere else. I mean is this woman actually now just going to look at your kid and be thinking ‘racist’ ?!!

I personally would take the advice of the nursery worker with some humility. It is possible that there are small contextual signs as well that aren't easy to explain that the nursery worker noticed.

I remember saying and thinking racist things as a child (to my shame) and also being quite taken aback when my niece said some outright racist things when she was small. It's really common.

Children pick up on cues from society from very, very young. It's absolutely not their fault.

So I see it as an opportunity to think: have I taught my child what racism is (in very basic terms obviously), in order to explain that it's not a good thing? Maybe I should talk about it more!

How can a 3 year old be racist? Even if they were (supposedly), they wouldn't actually know they're being racist, it would be completely innocent.

Ridiculous if you ask me.

Me too and I am a former Nursery Manager.

It is outrageous and quite worrying to think that anyone, let alone a Manager would think this. I would not hesitate in removing my child from the setting.